[GreasyC]

New here, and new to the whole idea of cnc machines. I'm looking into the feasibility of making some small aluminum parts in house and could use a pointer for where to talk about this. Two examples of parts I'd like to make:






Is there a machine I could buy to do these kinds of small parts for under $5000? I hate to be the total newb guy asking such an open ended question but you have to start somewhere. I'm able to use solidworks and model these kinds of parts, but I am not a machinist so I'd have a lot to learn. I'm a professional computer programmer so at least the computer side of things is an attractive part of the idea rather than an obstacle. Any advice or even pointers to a more appropriate place to ask the question are appreciated. Thanks.

[aarongough]

For making those sorts of parts the machine you are looking for is likely a CNC milling machine.

You can definitely put something together for less than $5000, the price is going to be heavily dependent on how large those parts are. If they're smaller than 10x5" then there's lots of options. If they're 10x10" then you have to look at getting a larger milling machine which is going to increase your costs.

Have a look at the BF20 milling machines: BF20.com

They're available at lots of different places, CNC retrofit kits are fairly easily available and the machines are supposed to be high quality.

Before you spend any money learn all you can about CNC and machining. If you can get your hands dirty doing some manual machining then get to work! Best places to look are local community colleges and tech schools, often times they will offer metalworking classes that cover milling and lathe-work.

It's easy to spend a lot of money in the wrong places if you start buying gear before you have any experience.

If you can't find any classes then consider spending some money on a decent milling machine and learning to use it manually first. Doing things manually gives you a decent feel for when things are right and wrong, and I think it's harder to get that feel when you're learning on a CNC machine...

[aarongough]

Also: where abouts in Canada are you? I'm in Toronto, and if you're nearby I'd be happy to give you a walk through my shop!

[wizard]

As has already been mentioned size is a significant factor, I'm going to make a wild guess that the bracket isn't that big and could be done on a small mill conversion. So looking at that one product a single CNC mill could be had for under $5000, probably a DIY possibly a ready to go mill.

It is when you start to consider the second part that the budget becomes questionable. To start to do this on a mill would likely require a fourth axis, probably a rather rigid and large fourth axis at that. The picture leaves out a lot of detail but this might be a project better done on a lathe. At least in part with some detailing done on a mill.

In either case on these low cost machines multiple setups will likely be required

New here, and new to the whole idea of cnc machines. I'm looking into the feasibility of making some small aluminum parts in house and could use a pointer for where to talk about this. Two examples of parts I'd like to make:

Frankly the first item ought to be easy for a small CNC conversion on a low cost mill. The hub would be a different story and you needs are dependent upon the hubs size. I don't see success here without a fourth axis if you want to do it all on a mill. Depending upon the hubs size you could need a rather large mill and fourth axis.

Is there a machine I could buy to do these kinds of small parts for under $5000?

You can certainly get some of them done for that amount via a DIY build of the basic machine. However I think you will go over budget rather quickly trying to outfit your shop/machine for both parts.

You state that you are a newbie, in that regard do realize that you need a lot more than the basic castiron and control hardware to effectively start machining your own parts. People often match what the lay out for the basic machine in things like tools, fixturing and clamping hardware and other goodies required to produce reasonable parts.

I hate to be the total newb guy asking such an open ended question but you have to start somewhere.

No problem really. However it might help to detail a little bit as to your background and ability to use tooling. Also what you currently have to work with. You might not have a tool in the house or you might be rather well equipped with all sorts of tools but no mill.

I'm able to use solidworks and model these kinds of parts, but I am not a machinist so I'd have a lot to learn. I'm a professional computer programmer so at least the computer side of things is an attractive part of the idea rather than an obstacle. Any advice or even pointers to a more appropriate place to ask the question are appreciated. Thanks.

It is always worthwhile to pick up a few books before laying out large sums of cash. Look towards the Internet for old books covering mill and lathe operation. The basic concepts come fairly quick. In any event you will quickly realize that the mill is just part of the equation when it comes to setting up shop. Along with those a book or two on CNC technology.

Why the books? Because I hope that they would highlight that there is a lot more to getting good parts off a machine than filtering a CAD drawing through a CAM program.

[GreasyC]

The hub is about 8" in diameter and it's the part I'm most interested in making. The largest dimension I'd be dealing with right now is about 12" but I could see wanting to have 26" on one dimension in the future. I didn't know if one machine could make both of these parts or if this represented 2 different tools.

I have no experience with machining at this point. Back in August I tried to get some hands on experience. I looked into the community college idea but the only course available here is $700. I did locate a community/co-op workshop that had a small lathe and friendly members who knew how to use it so I plunked down my membership fee and damage deposit only to have the landlord boot them out 2 weeks later before I could learn anything. I'm keeping an eye on them but they haven't found a new location yet.

At this point I'm not looking to spend money on something I can't use, I'm just trying to find out if that hub could be made with a tool I could afford to put in my shop. If that's not even feasible in my budget then there's no point in me spending a lot of time or money learning about machining at this point. Hopefully it is feasible though, I'd really love to be able to do this stuff.

[arizonavideo]

The hub looks like a cast part and would take more than a standard hobby mill to make.

At the least you would need a lathe that can hold over a 10" work peice. It is really a more advanced part, not something to learn on.

The triplle clamp is easier and most good mills could do it.

For fun you might add up how many ops and tools changes it would take to make the triple clamps from ruff stock to what you see in the picture.

[jdclark]

You are going to need a lathe and a mill to do both projects- A $5000.00 budget is pretty tight- I would take a look at the Shopmaster combo machine Cnc Milling Machine, Metal Lathe Mill Drill, 3 In 1 Machine.
Its close to your budget and offers cnc lathe and mill in one package.

[wizard]

The hub is about 8" in diameter and it's the part I'm most interested in making.

Frankly that is pretty large for any hobby class machine. Further unless you have a pretty tricked out mill you would need a lathe and a mill to make this item.

The largest dimension I'd be dealing with right now is about 12" but I could see wanting to have 26" on one dimension in the future.

These are pretty large pieces that may or may not be doable on a small machine. Obviously these machines can't make a 26" cut so that is out of the question but it might be possible to machine features on a 26" long part.

I didn't know if one machine could make both of these parts or if this represented 2 different tools.

Actually you have told us nothing about these parts that would allow for a rational answer.

I have no experience with machining at this point. Back in August I tried to get some hands on experience. I looked into the community college idea but the only course available here is $700.

I know that sounds like a lot of money but I think looking back after taking just the one course you will find it is money well spent. If nothing else it will give you a feeling for machining and machine requirements that you simply don't have now. Think about this a cheap chuck for a lathe capable of making one of you parts will likely cost more than $700.

I did locate a community/co-op workshop that had a small lathe and friendly members who knew how to use it so I plunked down my membership fee and damage deposit only to have the landlord boot them out 2 weeks later before I could learn anything. I'm keeping an eye on them but they haven't found a new location yet.

That kinda sucks as the moving expenses can literally kill such organizations. The other problem is that a small lathe won't do it for you! It will be good to learn on but most likely doesn't even come close to the capacity you need to turn that hub.

Personally I like the idea of such organizations as at times some machines can be very hard for an individual to justify. Apparently I'm in the minority because locally we have very little in this regard. Just covering rent in a commercial building becomes a problem unless you can somehow magically enlist enough memberships right off the bat. Hopefully your local group doesn't fall apart over this move.

At this point I'm not looking to spend money on something I can't use, I'm just trying to find out if that hub could be made with a tool I could afford to put in my shop. If that's not even feasible in my budget then there's no point in me spending a lot of time or money learning about machining at this point. Hopefully it is feasible though, I'd really love to be able to do this stuff.

Honestly if you can accept the idea of a manual machine, that is most likely a used machine, you can get a suitable lathe within your budget. Even so realize that that will be a rather large lathe and that doing the hub manually while possible wont be easy. Further other machines will be required.

In the end I really think your money would be well spent on the college course. Even if you decide that suitable machinery isn't within your budget you will gain the knowledge to make a proper decision and have a better capability to communicate with machine shop owners to contract items out. Further I think you will end up realizing that a machine shop is seldom about just one machine and that any non trivial work requires more than one machine.

[GreasyC]

I appreciate all the input guys. I realize how hard it is to answer these kind of questions where the person doesn't even know what they don't know. I would honestly love to take the college courses but that $700 is per tool. They have an "introduction to lathe operation" course that's $700, an "introduction to milling machines" course that's another $700, and an "introduction to CNC machines" course for you guessed it, $700. I really can't justify spending $2100 on classes for what's only a hobby to me. That wouldn't leave much of the budget to spend on tools either.

@aarongough:

I'm in Vancouver, the land of overpriced everything. The college in question is BCIT.

I didn't know if one machine could make both of these parts or if this represented 2 different tools.

Actually you have told us nothing about these parts that would allow for a rational answer.

Sorry I'm not sure what details I need to give. The hub in the picture was apparently cast and then machined because I can see some of the raw casting surface in the center but I'm not trying to exactly reproduce that part. I want to be able to make one that does the same job but has the proper width, or bearing size, or mounting bolt pattern for the project at hand. I've seen a youtube video of a guy making something like it on a manual lathe then drilling the spoke holes on a separate machine so I assumed it was a two machine type of project, but I knew there were CNC machines with more than three axis so I wondered if maybe they could do all the operations involved in this type of thing and if so what one would cost.

These are pretty large pieces that may or may not be doable on a small machine. Obviously these machines can't make a 26" cut so that is out of the question but it might be possible to machine features on a 26" long part.

That 26" part would be strictly a milling operation profiling the back of a long skinny part. Surely there are CNC machines with a two foot long work area? Pretty sure I've seen 4+ on here.

[txcncman]

Ask for a tour of a machine shop in your area that makes similar parts. Ask for a brief internship at a machine shop. Won't cost 700 and you might learn some things. There are dozens of YouTube videos to watch also.

[wizard]

Your 26" part could be a problem as that would require a larger CNC mill than we commonly see I desktop machines. Or to put it another way machines that are commonly converted to CNC cheaply.

However realize that we know nothing about this 26" part, it could very well be an aluminum piece suitable for knocking out on a router type machine. Or it might be a part that can be easily done in multiple setups on a smaller mill. There are many variables here, so it is hard to say if the part can be done on a $5000 machine.

I appreciate all the input guys. I realize how hard it is to answer these kind of questions where the person doesn't even know what they don't know. I would honestly love to take the college courses but that $700 is per tool. They have an "introduction to lathe operation" course that's $700, an "introduction to milling machines" course that's another $700, and an "introduction to CNC machines" course for you guessed it, $700. I really can't justify spending $2100 on classes for what's only a hobby to me. That wouldn't leave much of the budget to spend on tools either.

I think you are looking at this very short term. Back in my day, when I was going to night school to get my AAS in Electromechanical technology, I filled in a few quarters with comp Sci classes. A little extra that has paid off over and over again. It is really hard to predict how a bit of knowledge outside your specialty will pay off in the future. Further it isn't like you have to take all the classes at once.

@aarongough:

I'm in Vancouver, the land of overpriced everything. The college in question is BCIT.

Well you can move to the US, it isn't that far away and we still let in English speakers.

Personally I like the more formal learning environments, mainly because if you have questions you can get them answered and you have the perspective of your classmates. You do have options though.

For one there is much info on the MIT web site. I don't have handy links but a bit of searching should help you out. Many other colleges have bits of info too. Even ITunes U has a tiny bit of machining related stuff.

There are all sorts of books to consider too.

Sorry I'm not sure what details I need to give. The hub in the picture was apparently cast and then machined because I can see some of the raw casting surface in the center but I'm not trying to exactly reproduce that part. I want to be able to make one that does the same job but has the proper width, or bearing size, or mounting bolt pattern for the project at hand. I've seen a youtube video of a guy making something like it on a manual lathe then drilling the spoke holes on a separate machine so I assumed it was a two machine type of project, but I knew there were CNC machines with more than three axis so I wondered if maybe they could do all the operations involved in this type of thing and if so what one would cost.

The problem is your budget. Pay enough you can get some pretty extreme CNC machines that can turn, mill and bake a cake all while the operator plays angry birds. You will not do that for a $5000 budget!

That 26" part would be strictly a milling operation profiling the back of a long skinny part. Surely there are CNC machines with a two foot long work area? Pretty sure I've seen 4+ on here.

Certainly, you can buy CNC machines to turn gun barrels for destroys or machine diesels for locomotives. Trying to do something for under $5000 will depend very much on the specifics of that part. This is where hands on training is far better than reading a book or viewing a quick flick on the Internet.

[uli12us]

You can make both parts on a single machine, but if you haven't more than 5000$ than you must buy a used machine and retrofit most of the machine.

If you have a big mill, than you can put a rotary table upon the worktable. If you drive the rotary table with a motor than you can turn your part and clamp your tool in the milling spindle. But for a good surfacespeed you need much power, I think less than 3kW will not work. And you must clamp your milling spindle, therefore your turning tool can't change the height to the centre of rotation.

With a small mill all this don't work, because you don't have the rigidity you need for a chattering free surface.

[GreasyC]

Maybe I should have asked a different question then, let's set my budget (and ignorance) aside for now. What would be a reasonable setup to produce a hub like that? Can be one machine or more than one, whatever you think would be a cost effective way to build it.