[Rubon]

Hello all!
Building a small cnc router, predominantly for milling PCBs and may be some plastic (perhaps some engraving and very light cuts in brass&Al).
So one of the last things that I haven't got yet is a spindle.
Looking to buy a "CNC on a budget" one with a sewing motor or a wolfgang tb-650.
I would consider other as well, as long they are relatively quiet(will be used in appartment). The aformentioned spindles are just those I've heard of a lot.
If anyone have one of these for sale I would be glad to buy it.
I'm from Brooklyn, NY 11214
Thank you!
Alex

[Bubba]

Alex,
I got one of Paul's original spindles with the "sander" motor on it (70 watt) and use it in the house to do my pcb's etc. I have also done some light milling on aluminum and brass and it works very well.
It is quiet and you can carry on a normal conversation in the room with it doing its thing especially if it is pcb routing or drilling.

[Rubon]

Thank you, Bubba, for your reply!
Could you please post some actual images of it and, of course, name your price.
Thank you!
Alex

[Bubba]

Alex,
I was giving you a comment on what I have in an effort to give you an opinion. Sorry it is not for sale! I like it to much! I bought mine directly from Paul. Nice guy to work with.

[Rubon]

)))
Thank you for your valuable information, Bubba!
Would love to get one myself directly from Paul, though I thought I'd give a try here first to possibly get it a little cheaper(dreams-dreams). But, I guess, everyone loves theirs so much that it will take me forever to find one here))
p.s. I've emailed Paul about some specifics of his spindles, but, I guess, it was a busy weekend for him, therefore no response yet.

[Bubba]

Yeh,
Sometimes he is a bit slow on responses. Maybe hung over from a music gig also:})

If I can help with some of the specifics, let me know as I went though that also.
For starters, the spindle speeds of the original 3 speed are 7500, 15000, 30000 rpm

[Rubon]

I appreciate your help, Bubba!
I'm curious about the dimensions of the spindles and their weight(not so much for the original and it's ER11 version, but rather about the sewing motor model).
As my planned router only has a ~9'x6" working area, the outer dimensions are what to be determined and the spindle contributes a big part in it.
For my Y-axis I'm going to use a thk kr26 linear actuator(bought on ebay, still on the way),
so my main concern is whether I need an an additional support rail or not (which I'll probably add anyway, but this might put off my built a bit furhter)
Thank you!
Alex
p.s. thanks for the spindle speeds

[Bubba]

Looking at the pictures on his site, it appears he is using the same spindle body for the unit with the sewing machine motor. So the spindle body is ~1" diameter and the assembly is ~5.5 inches long. Again, it would appear the motor mounting bracket is the same as the original. Guessing the weight a 1-2 lbs as that motor looks to be heavier than the spindle!
Mounting of the original is by use of a single 10-24 (I think) screw. The length of the motor mounting bracket is ~3.9" and can be swung 360° around the spindle itself.
HTH

[Rubon]

Thanks again, Bubba, for the valuable input!
So the total estimated length should be about ~5.5"+~4-4.5"=~10", which is a bit more than planned. But if it's the quietest of all, I would rather justify the extra real estate than extra noise from the smaller spindle.
And the great thing about these spindles is that, as you've mentioned, they can be positioned at any direction/angle around the the body of the spindle.
Thank you!
Alex

[Rubon]

Just a quick update on my ebay findings)
Our taiwanese fellow cnc'iers already "produced" something similar)
ER11 Spindle for Sable 2015 SPD ER11 ENGRAVER Mill PCB's Engraving | eBay
What impressed me is how quiet this thing is! just wow!(I know how Bosch Colt sounds, even on med 3-4 setting - night and day)
While this spindle is not bad, I would rather buy an American made tool.
And still no answer from Paul...

[Bubba]

"What impressed me is how quiet this thing is!" Yep, now if we can find a vacuum that is that quiet:})
I also notice the off shore unit is only two speed, and has only one belt. Paul uses two belts so you don't have to stop in case of breakage during a run.

[Rubon]

Got an answer from Paul)
I'm going with original 3speed spindle with an extra mounting option for sewing motor(in case I won't be able to handle my wife's complains )
2 belt system, 3 speeds are hands down great, but I guess the deciding factor for me is that it's made here in the USA by a well known name.

And I must thank you once again, Bubba, for helping me to settle right from the get go.

I guess, this thread can be closed now

Alex

p.s. "quiet vacuum" - haven't heard of a such a thing)))

[Bubba]

Alex,
Fantastic that he got back to you. The sound these things make is next to nothing.
If/when my motor on the original unit dies, I plan on replacing it with an outrunner RC motor. Planning ahead, it is supposed to be here on the slow boat from china by the first of the year. This will also give me in addition to the original three speeds, variable speed! If things work out, the one I have chosen will also have about twice the power.
Have a Merry Christmas

[Rubon]

Bubba,
A week has flown by like 5minutes)
Thant's a great idea! Would you please share what exactly motor you are planning to use? RC motors need some high amperage power supplies - how you intend to use your's? and what ESC?
my "plan B" is a sewing machine mounting braket, but hope I won't need it immediately

Thank you and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Alex

[Bubba]

Alex,
The motor that I hope to use is a 790KV unit and rated to 780 watts. As the present motor is only rated for 70 watts, I plan on using a 20V 8amp supply which should approach 160 watts if all goes well. I have an 80 amp ESC that I plan on using with a servo tester for now. IF (big IF) all goes well, I plan on making a tester that will interface with my control program so I can have programmable speeds also.
The original motor is rated at 15,000 rpm and this one on 20V will be rated at 15,800 (close enough). So even if I run it at close to full speed, it will be amazingly close to the original setup. Also as there are no brushes, won't have to worry about that either.
Will see how it works out.

Merry Christmas.

[Dylwad]

Alex,
The motor that I hope to use is a 790KV unit and rated to 780 watts. As the present motor is only rated for 70 watts, I plan on using a 20V 8amp supply which should approach 160 watts if all goes well. I have an 80 amp ESC that I plan on using with a servo tester for now. IF (big IF) all goes well, I plan on making a tester that will interface with my control program so I can have programmable speeds also.
The original motor is rated at 15,000 rpm and this one on 20V will be rated at 15,800 (close enough). So even if I run it at close to full speed, it will be amazingly close to the original setup. Also as there are no brushes, won't have to worry about that either.
Will see how it works out.

Merry Christmas.

Hey Bubba,

Which esc are you planning on using? I would recommend one with active freewheel like the YEP from hobbyking (YGE clone) ran in governor store mode.

Active freewheel makes the esc run much cooler at part throttle, and with gov store you can get really good control over rpm, and it will almost act like a sensorless vector vfd.

brushless escs without active freewheel run cooler at full throttle at half their rated amps than they do at half throttle and half their rated amps, sometimes by a huge margin.

Also would be a good idea to add some low esr caps to the power input to help with voltage spikes and ripple from having long wires between the esc and power supply.

Dylan.

From tapatalk

[Bubba]

Dylan,
Thanks for the info. This part is all new to me and the ESC that I have is one for a helicopter and is supposed to have a governor mode? Will know more when I get it and give it a try.
Will definitely look into the YEP.
This is a backup plan in case the existing motor decides to let out the magic smoke!

[Dylwad]

Dylan,
Thanks for the info. This part is all new to me and the ESC that I have is one for a helicopter and is supposed to have a governor mode? Will know more when I get it and give it a try.
Will definitely look into the YEP.
This is a backup plan in case the existing motor decides to let out the magic smoke!

Having any sort of governor is better than not I would look into higher Kv motors and run it direct drive through a coupler too, if possible, you just have to watch out for vibrations as most of the budget motors are not factory balanced like the better brands.

Something like the scorpion 2221 1600Kv with a YEP 45 at 20 volts would be good for 30k+ rpm and have good torque through most of it's range.



From tapatalk

[Bubba]

Dylan,
I bought a "CNC on a Budget" spindle from Paul Jones which is belt driven and this is a backup plan to that as it works very well now. I have another motor that I thought was going to be good for the application, but the shaft size is off and actually the KV is to high for this. Sure it would be nice to say I was running my cutter at 200K, but how long would the bearings last? The existing setup is a 3 ratio pulley setup. so with 15K as a base line, it will do 7500, 15000, and 30,000 rpm. I figure if I want higher speeds (original thoughts), I will have to go ceramic bearings and worry about balance of all parts.

To me it is amazing what I have done with the existing spindle. In addition to PCBs, I have milled aluminum and brass. No, it will not hog it, but it did an admirable job.

[Rubon]

Merry Christmas everyone!
And thank you all for the valuable information
While I have yet to receive my spindle(hopefully by the end of the year), it's good to know how modifiable/versatile it could be)
So I certainly looking forward for more info regarding this matter.
Thank you all once again and Happy Holidays!
Alex