[Toasty]

Hey all. I've been lurking here for a while and decided it was time to ask a couple of questions.

I work full time as a laser engraver in the awards industry. I have been thinking about picking up one of the cheap-o eBay 40 watt laser engravers.

After talking to another engraver about it, I was told not to get one because there's a risk they can make the parts you are engraving radioactive. lol

Someone tell me this is just plain stupid. I think he's reading the warning labels about radiation and taking them out of context.

Anyway, I have a lot of small cnc machine experience so I'm not too worried about tinkering with the machine to make it work. And now that I'm a member here I can drive everyone on the forum crazy with questions.

My main use would be engraving plastic tags. Name badges, legend tags, maybe some small acrylic awards from time to time, etc...

Anyone on here using one for that sort of work? Is the quality of the engraving good enough for professional quality small work like this?

I realize the software sucks but it looks like it would be good enough for doing simple raster engravings. I don't plan on doing much vector cutting with it.

Again, I know it's a cheap pos but I think I'm going into it fully aware of the limitations. I just want to make sure it can at least handle some simple jobs.

Oh, and does anyone recommend a good seller of these here in the states ebay or elsewhere?

[mondo50m]

I am not going to 'put down' the cheap 40w laser, as I have one. But I will tell you about mine since I have had it over a year. I got it in 2011. After about 4 months, the power supply went out. The seller I got it from sent me a new one. But, I did have to threaten them with action from both EBAY and PAYPAL. About 5 months after that I had to replace the laser tube. I probably had no more than 300 hours on the machine. But I think the tube went bad because of really bad arcing on the large resistor. I bought a new one from EBAY and have had it for about 5 months now. I really believe that the cheap Chinese machines are built from "factory second" parts. They jut do not last very long. My Moshi board finally gave out and I have since replaced it with the Lightobject DSP. It is a limited machine, but if one knows that going in, one can not complain. I have enjoyed mine, and now that I have converted it, I REALLY enjoy it. I am not in business, I just make things for family and friends. It is a big boys toy.

Milt

[herby08]

Hi toasty
OK it all depends on your budget. the machine like it is is very limited because of the moshi system what combines the processor and driver on one board and the software for it is a piece of sh....
you can do simple engraving but have to expect that the machone stops, gets haywire, or sends the job to a different place and dont forgett you need the dongle if this is damaged or lost you have to pay another $ 340 to replace it.
I have coverted my self quite a few machiens for people and helpd even more to convert the machine like mondo50 and they are very happy afterwards with then reliable machine.
what does this mean: you need a DSP controller like the best right now comercial version of AWC608 with the most advanced software Lasercut 6.37, then you need 2 stepper driver like 2M542, a 24V powersupply and if your machine does not have allready one a PWM laser powersupply.
the cost for all the convertion parts run at about $ 850 plus Shipping if you buy from my supplier with a machine from ebay like $ 850 you get for $ 1700 a machine what regular runs in the 3-to $4000 area.
to convert it takes a bit twiking but I would help you all the way, because I have done this many many times.
if you want my help just send me a PM
greetings
waltfl

Hey all. I've been lurking here for a while and decided it was time to ask a couple of questions.

I work full time as a laser engraver in the awards industry. I have been thinking about picking up one of the cheap-o eBay 40 watt laser engravers.

After talking to another engraver about it, I was told not to get one because there's a risk they can make the parts you are engraving radioactive. lol

Someone tell me this is just plain stupid. I think he's reading the warning labels about radiation and taking them out of context.

Anyway, I have a lot of small cnc machine experience so I'm not too worried about tinkering with the machine to make it work. And now that I'm a member here I can drive everyone on the forum crazy with questions.

My main use would be engraving plastic tags. Name badges, legend tags, maybe some small acrylic awards from time to time, etc...

Anyone on here using one for that sort of work? Is the quality of the engraving good enough for professional quality small work like this?

I realize the software sucks but it looks like it would be good enough for doing simple raster engravings. I don't plan on doing much vector cutting with it.

Again, I know it's a cheap pos but I think I'm going into it fully aware of the limitations. I just want to make sure it can at least handle some simple jobs.

Oh, and does anyone recommend a good seller of these here in the states ebay or elsewhere?

[epilotdk]

You would be wasting your money in my opinion. They have poor mechanical components and engraving requires precision. For around $2000 you can get a much better machine that works right off the bat. It will have proper linear guides, not those cheap plasic rollers used in the K-40 machines.

The radiation referred to is laser light. It has nothing to do with radioactive radiation. You friend is either taking the piss or missing a few candles in his birthday cake ;-)

I currently own a LG3040 from G.Weike. It cost around $2K and has been doing serious production work for the past couple of months without a glitch. Engraving precision is spot on with no drift.

[herby08]

yeah first you forgett the additional shipping cost about $500 to 800.
dont say this if you did not use one, because then how you wana know?
the mechanic has some minor flaws sure but I personally own a few machines and compare them cheap to midclass there is after convertion no difference in engraving.
greetings
waltfl

You would be wasting your money in my opinion. They have poor mechanical components and engraving requires precision. For around $2000 you can get a much better machine that works right off the bat. It will have proper linear guides, not those cheap plasic rollers used in the K-40 machines.

The radiation referred to is laser light. It has nothing to do with radioactive radiation. You friend is either taking the piss or missing a few candles in his birthday cake ;-)

I currently own a LG3040 from G.Weike. It cost around $2K and has been doing serious production work for the past couple of months without a glitch. Engraving precision is spot on with no drift.

[epilotdk]

No, shipping by sea is only $50.

I have seen K-40's in action and I stand by my opinion that they are crap. They don't work properly unless you spend money on upgrading them. When you add up the cost and time you have to spend on them you might as well spend a little more and buy something that actually works. The better machine will also have a better re-sale value.

You only have to look at this forum to see how many people have problems with the K-40 machines. I honestly don't understand why you feel so strongly about defending such a low quality machine. As you mention yourself, it needs new parts to make it work. Not everyone is capable of doing that work or want to spend time on it. You probably don't put a price on your own time but if you did and added up the hours plus what you spent on new parts, postage etc. then I bet you are not far off the price of a better machine. However if you want to keep kidding yourself, be my guest. However if you want to keep recommending people buy a K-40 you should list the parts, cost AND the hours spent on conversion so they can make an informed decisions about whether to buy one or not.

The ones on Ebay don't have a proper extraction fan, no air assist, no cutting bed and no height adjustment - all things I consider important in a laser.

[herby08]

Hi
everynody has his own opinion, but like I said as long as you have not realy worked with one you should not just take other peoples word for your opinion.
what I said before the cost of the convertion runs by $ 850 including shipping.
and for somebody with just a bit generell knoledge about wires it takes about max 4 hours. why I defend it so much is that some people dont even have the additionla $ 500 to $ 1.000 just laying around and dont do heavy production thats where the mechanic comes in to play even that I personly
have one of this converted machines pretty muvch running 6 hour/day and do heavy cutting up to 1/4 inch in oak, acrylic,ply and teven engrave graniteand all thie materials with the best results.
I never have heart of a shipping cost of just $ 50..
but like I say everybpody has hes own experience and opinion
ghreetings
waltfl

No, shipping by sea is only $50.

I have seen K-40's in action and I stand by my opinion that they are crap. They don't work properly unless you spend money on upgrading them. When you add up the cost and time you have to spend on them you might as well spend a little more and buy something that actually works. The better machine will also have a better re-sale value.

You only have to look at this forum to see how many people have problems with the K-40 machines. I honestly don't understand why you feel so strongly about defending such a low quality machine. As you mention yourself, it needs new parts to make it work. Not everyone is capable of doing that work or want to spend time on it. You probably don't put a price on your own time but if you did and added up the hours plus what you spent on new parts, postage etc. then I bet you are not far off the price of a better machine. However if you want to keep kidding yourself, be my guest. However if you want to keep recommending people buy a K-40 you should list the parts, cost AND the hours spent on conversion so they can make an informed decisions about whether to buy one or not.

The ones on Ebay don't have a proper extraction fan, no air assist, no cutting bed and no height adjustment - all things I consider important in a laser.

[RossMosh]

You'd be better off getting one of the "professional" models with a 12x20 table for around $3000-3500. The cheapo machines are built purely for price. When a replacement tube costs $300, it just shows how much the rest of the machine cost.

The one thing I will say is, the value of the Chinese machines only become extremely good when you start looking at 24x36 machines with 80w+ tubes. There is no doubt that a 40W machine desktop machine from China is cheaper than something from the US, but the savings isn't as dramatic. You're talking about a $3000 savings, which is a lot of money but the 24x36 machines with 80w+ you're looking at easily $10,000 in savings.

Personally, for a desktop machine, I'd look for a used Epilog, Trotec, or Universal machine. You'll spend a similar amount for the used machine but get a MUCH better product.

[Hurricane21]

Toasty,

Please consider Hurricane Lasers if you want a quality glass tube laser with US optics and mirrors. We also stock all of the parts etc in Las Vegas for easy shipping. While some on here say to order direct that works fine if you do not need support or training which we provide.

Thank you and let me know if you have any questions.

John

[Toasty]

Thanks for all the replies!

I guess I have some thinking to do before throwing down the cash.

Like I said though, I do fully understand that these are more hobby grade machines but for what I'm doing it might still work fine.

Someone mentioned the plastic rollers instead of proper guides. Kind of made me chuckle a bit. The Universal machine I use at work every day has a similar roller setup.

Question... The k40's have no height adjustment? My understanding was that they had manual height adjustment. If you can't adjust the height how can you set the focus?

Also, I was checking out lightobject's web site and saw this:

2012 Commercial DSP CO2 Laser Engraving/ Cutter Controller. Support CorelDraw & AutoCad

What else would you need for a conversion?

[mondo50m]

Hi. You will need to purchase 2 stepper drivers @ abut $32.00 each and a 24v power supply with about 15 amps to run the drivers and the DSP. This costs about $45.00. As I stated, I just finished my conversion. I purchased the conversion kit from lightobject ($603.00). They also have a height adjustable table on their website for the k40, for this you will need a third stepper driver. I built my own adjustable table. Not much to it. You will also need to make sure that your laser power supply can be paired with the DSP. It will have the following connections:

TH TL WP G IN 5V (I believe)

Milt

[Toasty]

Hi. You will need to purchase 2 stepper drivers @ abut $32.00 each and a 24v power supply with about 15 amps to run the drivers and the DSP. This costs about $45.00. As I stated, I just finished my conversion. I purchased the conversion kit from lightobject ($603.00). They also have a height adjustable table on their website for the k40, for this you will need a third stepper driver. I built my own adjustable table. Not much to it. You will also need to make sure that your laser power supply can be paired with the DSP. It will have the following connections:

TH TL WP G IN 5V (I believe)

Milt

Again, thanks for the help.

Lightobject has a lot of toys on their web site. I need to stop looking at it! lol

I'm still a bit confused about the stock k40. How do you adjust the height (focus) if the table doesn't move?

[herby08]

the little machine come with the table alreayd in the right height for the focus lense what is in there.
you also can take out this table and build your own or put something in the right hight under the working material
greetings
walt

Again, thanks for the help.

Lightobject has a lot of toys on their web site. I need to stop looking at it! lol

I'm still a bit confused about the stock k40. How do you adjust the height (focus) if the table doesn't move?

[epilotdk]

the little machine come with the table alreayd in the right height for the focus lense what is in there.

Sure, but how do you adjust for material thickness?

[Toasty]

Sure, but how do you adjust for material thickness?

Exactly my point.

I've noticed on some of the examples I see made on these little machines that the focus isn't set correctly. It looks like the people using them just crank up the power until it engraves. That makes for bad engraving and is probably one of the reasons people are killing power supplies and tubes. Of course I might be wrong...

Wow, not having any height adjustment is just silly. Something to think about for sure. Making a manual adjusting table wouldn't be hard but that's one more thing for my list.

Anyone have a GOOD small laser machine they want to trade for a Maxnc Closed Loop lathe? lol

[herby08]

Hi there
what everybody should do first is find the true focus point with a piece of wood or whatever lay on one side on the table and the other side 1/2 inch higher then engrave a line on this and measure the distance from the laser head to the material where the line is the thinnest thats what should allways be used as distance for any material and then put something under the material to get the right hight.
greetings
waltfl

Sure, but how do you adjust for material thickness?

[Toasty]

the little machine come with the table alreayd in the right height for the focus lense what is in there.
you also can take out this table and build your own or put something in the right hight under the working material
greetings
walt

Oh, I think I see how you do it. That square opening has a spring loaded clamp and you get the work material flush with the top of the table. Yeah, I would have to change that for sure.

[herby08]

Hi toasty
I eventook out the whole table because of bigger items and put something under to the right hight.
greetings
waltfl

Oh, I think I see how you do it. That square opening has a spring loaded clamp and you get the work material flush with the top of the table. Yeah, I would have to change that for sure.

[Exsecratio]

Must admit I don't like the K40 family of machines, they take way to much work to get a result that is reliable

Then again on the focus issue, the large flatbed lasers also require manual movement of the laser head lens holder to get focus as they don't have moving beds. Not something I'm happy with and the main reason I haven't purchased 2 already.

The best way to look at the tiny machines like the K40 is as an introduction to lasers, they really aren't up to any serious work having both shortfalls in mechanics and software.

My late father taught me something that has always rung true, "Buy too cheap and you will end up buying twice"

best wishes

Dave

[epilotdk]

Having to pack up what you are cutting to the correct height sounds very cumbersome to me.

What about decent extraction and air assist? AFAIK that is missing on the Ebay K-40 machines. That also cost money.

I don't know about freight cost to the US but I just ordered a LG6040N from G. Weike and paid $50 for it to be sent by ship to Felixstowe where I can collect it myself. My LG3040 cost $500 to ship because I opted to have it sent by air. I had it 3 days after it left the factory.

My LG3040 was upgrade to a 60W tube. Including a spare 60W tube, mirrors and lens, sent by air to the UK it cost me £1870 plus app. £130 in duty and clearance fees and £25 in bank fees. I'm VAT registered so could claim the VAT back. The alignment was so good out of the box that a turn on one screw on the mirror adjustment had it spot on. It has done serious production work since then. When the display developed a fault, G. Weike sent a replacement straight away by courier so I had it a couple of days later. No charge.

Lets just say that you can do all the upgrades to a K-40 in 4 hours. What about the time to source the parts, wait for them to arrive etc? During this time you could be making money with a decent machine. What about warranty? (if there even is any). As soon as you start modifying the machine that is probably out the window.