[mikw375]

Hello - I will start this post by stating that I know absolutely nothing about CNC mills other than observing them from a distance and basic non-cnc mill use 20 years ago back in high school. That being said I may be starting a business that will require a CNC mill. In short, I need a mill capable of making essentially one cut in aluminum roughly .5 Wx 2.0 L x 1.25 D it also needs to be able to drill two 5/32 holes in said aluminum. This is a very simple machining and one that could be performed easily on a manually operated mill, however this buisness is unique in that the customer is going to be perform the milling operation, so the need for uber simple CNC machine is needed. So the question is what is the best value, lest expensive CNC machine capable of this job. That is all it is ever going to have to do—one cut the two holes...over and over again. BTW the exterior dimensions of the billet of aluminum is roughly 8 L x 2 W x 5 D to give youa rough idea of the overall size of the project. Thank for the help.

[fizzissist]

Hello - I will start this post by stating that I know absolutely nothing about CNC mills other than observing them from a distance and basic non-cnc mill use 20 years ago back in high school. That being said I may be starting a business that will require a CNC mill. In short, I need a mill capable of making essentially one cut in aluminum roughly .5 Wx 2.0 L x 1.25 D it also needs to be able to drill two 5/32 holes in said aluminum. This is a very simple machining and one that could be performed easily on a manually operated mill, however this buisness is unique in that the customer is going to be perform the milling operation, so the need for uber simple CNC machine is needed. So the question is what is the best value, lest expensive CNC machine capable of this job. That is all it is ever going to have to do—one cut the two holes...over and over again. BTW the exterior dimensions of the billet of aluminum is roughly 8 L x 2 W x 5 D to give youa rough idea of the overall size of the project. Thank for the help.

You don't say how many pieces, how frequent, what precision, what your budget is, how rapid the part must be machined.....

So not knowing any of those variables, I'll say Morei Seiki. That'll leave you plenty of room for expansion, and excellent resale value if the idea doesn't pan out.

http://mfgnewsweb.com/archives/gener...s/image001.jpg

[mikw375]

Thanks all good questions. and some I don't have the answers to, but here is a stab at it. Something under 15K would be ideal. Roughly two pieces an hour, very low volumne. Run probably three days a week for 10 hours a day. Moderate level of precision, but not super precise either. It is not really a very critical tolerance level.
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Thanks

[fizzissist]

Thanks all good questions. and some I don't have the answers to, but here is a stab at it. Something under 15K would be ideal. Roughly two pieces an hour, very low volumne. Run probably three days a week for 10 hours a day. Moderate level of precision, but not super precise either. It is not really a very critical tolerance level.
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Thanks

Hate to burst the CNC bubble, but you could easily build a dedicated mechanical system to do this for a few thousand bucks. Cams, a few electric gear motors, ball screws, ..... This sounds way too simple to waste a good, even cheap, CNC on.

Trust me, if I could justify selling you a new CNC mill, I would in a heartbeat!
All you need is a good Rube Goldberg with some refinement. You could even make it steampunk!

[hp84117]

A Harbor Freight X2 mini mill conversion would probably do everything you needed, however since the customer is going to be operating the mill, you may want to consider something with more X travel. The G0704 is a very popular CNC conversion host and would have enough room on the table to have two fixtures attached so the customer could clamp the lower, oops, the billet, in and do the slotting operations and then clamp it on the side in the other fixture and drill the holes.

As I recall, your cost for the mill and the conversion parts would be somewhere in the $3,000 to $4,000 range. There are a number of detailed threads on the Zone showing the conversion process where you can get a better idea of the cost and options.

[LUCKY13]

Something else to think about is customer safety, and to be honest your descriptions are not adding up to good to me.



Like for instance, you want it so a customer can walk up and bolt his part down and hit a button and the job gets done. But this is going to go on for 10 hours a day? You really do not want anything like this that a customer can even get close to, much less operate. You will be bankrupt, and even in jail for involuntary manslaughter, or worse.


Now more exact descriptions on what you are really doing/offering here would be a plus. But yes this does sound like a good job for a purpose built machine with a built in pick & place thing going on with the metal stock, air or hydrolic hold down system, and nothing but a button to push for the customer to say, yea I want one.


I am not understanding why these cant be pre made and on a shelf for the customer? ANd as simple as the base job itself is there are possibilities of paying someone to make them for you instead of buying/building a machine.


But just for a quick and dirty suggestion of a machine that could do the job ( not with any customers involved), and handle this amount of workload at a price that fits your budget, the Tormach PCNC 1100. This is a well built machine for this price range with great survice from the company and reliability from the machine. BUt it or any other machine in this class is nothing you ever want to let customers get anywhere close to. Without knowing anything else about your product and exactly why/how you want the customer involved my best suggestion is a purpose built machine with much thought put into the design around its exact role to be played with the customer. It may even could be very reasonable on price ot build such a machine, depending on many need to know important factors.


Jess

[mikw375]

Something else to think about is customer safety, and to be honest your descriptions are not adding up to good to me.



Like for instance, you want it so a customer can walk up and bolt his part down and hit a button and the job gets done. But this is going to go on for 10 hours a day? You really do not want anything like this that a customer can even get close to, much less operate. You will be bankrupt, and even in jail for involuntary manslaughter, or worse.


Now more exact descriptions on what you are really doing/offering here would be a plus. But yes this does sound like a good job for a purpose built machine with a built in pick & place thing going on with the metal stock, air or hydrolic hold down system, and nothing but a button to push for the customer to say, yea I want one.


I am not understanding why these cant be pre made and on a shelf for the customer? ANd as simple as the base job itself is there are possibilities of paying someone to make them for you instead of buying/building a machine.


But just for a quick and dirty suggestion of a machine that could do the job ( not with any customers involved), and handle this amount of workload at a price that fits your budget, the Tormach PCNC 1100. This is a well built machine for this price range with great survice from the company and reliability from the machine. BUt it or any other machine in this class is nothing you ever want to let customers get anywhere close to. Without knowing anything else about your product and exactly why/how you want the customer involved my best suggestion is a purpose built machine with much thought put into the design around its exact role to be played with the customer. It may even could be very reasonable on price ot build such a machine, depending on many need to know important factors.


Jess

Yup - you guys figured it out...wasn't trying to be deceptive, just didn't want to go through explaining what an 80% lower is, but evidently enough folks here know what it is. To answer your question having the customer do the work is the only way for this business to be legal. if you do it yourself as the machinist/buisnes owner) you are a firearms manufacturer...not a buisness I want to be in. But a supplier of a machine that completes an 80% firearm receiver to a 100 percent functional firearm is completely legal so long as the customer does the final 20% of the work...

So that being said, what is the best way to mill and drill an 80% lower where a customer can do it and essentially rent shop space from me to do so. A mill set up for a single function - i.e. the trigger control group operation then a seperate drill press with a jig for the pin drilling operation or do it all on a mill. Your thoughts? I have roughly 15K -20k to invest so if I can get the machine cheaper, ill just buy multiple units.

Thoughts?

[TechGuy5002]

not a buisness I want to be in. But a supplier of a machine that completes an 80% firearm receiver to a 100 percent functional firearm is completely legal so long as the customer does the final 20% of the work...
Thoughts?

I think you are grossly underestimating the risks you are taking You will be harassed by the ATF. Expect to spend the majority of your profits and your free time dealing with the ATF and legal matters. If one of those guns is stolen or used in a crime expect the ATF to arrest you, ie aiding and abetting criminal activity. What if one of the guns build by one of your customers blows up because its assembled incorrectly. You can gaurentee you will be sued (even if you had done nothing wrong). Also expect a visit from law enforcement. FWIW: Don't expect an honest trial. America is rapidly evolving into Amerika.

You will need to perform background checks on all of your customers, since its illegal for a convicted person to own a firearm, even if its self made. What if a gang member with a record walks in. Your aiding and betting them. When they left your premises, they will be walking out with a part that the gov't considers a firearm.

if you don't believe me, please call the ATF and ask to see if your business model is illegal. I would also recommend contacting a lawyer, one that specializing in firearms manufacturing to provide you with a legal document that your customers sign, for liability. Also get Business insurance (at least 5 Million in coverage). I suspect when you explain what your doing they will either not offer you a policy or it will be very expensive ie $15K to $30K per year.

FWIW: With all of the talk of gun control, I have no doubt that this loophole will disappear. All it will take is one unregister/non-serialize rifle used in a crime.

[jalessi]

There may be a parallelism between some of these:

1: Jig rentals

2: Group buy and builds

Posting a few questions on the gun parts kit forums would get much more accurate feedback.

Build bridges, not walls.

Jeff...