[gunda]

Hi guys
I recently started work on Mazak Integrex i200s and having in mind the Siemens, Fanuc and other controls I've also used so far I can tell that nothing compares to Okuma in terms of convenience, logic and usage easiness.
So I think everyone in this forum should be glad to be working exactly on these machines.
What's your opinion ...?

[fordav11]

>nothing compares to Okuma in terms of convenience, logic and usage easiness

seriously? I think you are (A) trolling and (B) need more experience. Fanuc is by far easier and more straight forward *IF* you know what you are doing. Control has no limitations, but again *IF* you know how to access/use it properly. Fanuc is like LEGO. You can do anything if you have the knowledge, dedication and determination to make it happen.

I've worked most major brands and models of controls over the last 25 years spanning hundreds of machine designs and my opinion of Okuma is it is over-complicated and under-tested compared to others. Build quality of latest machines is lower compared to others too (several people have said the same thing in other posts here.... do a search).

My opinion of Mazak is it is too simplified. I laugh when people say Mazak in Mazatrol mode can do anything then revert to ISO code (adding a manual process) to do something that it can't do ;-)

Of course I have just fed the troll but I always enjoy a leisurely walk down to the local park with a handful of controversial replies to feed to the trolls so I'm sure this is not the end of this thread ;-)

[underthetire]

All depends on what you cut your teeth on. The ONLY control I hate is seimens, and that's mostly from reliability issues.

[fordav11]

yeah Seimens sucks ;-)
It sucks so much that there is no support or dealers in my country.
I think it is more popular in Europe for some reason. It could be political. Maybe they just hate Japanese controls.

I actually cut my teeth on an Okuma LS-N 'Big 10' with OSP2200. At the same time I was also working a Hitachi Seiki Seikimatic 500 twin pallet horizontal mill with Fanuc 6M control.
Even back then as an apprentice I thought the Okuma was crap. Now after having the power of a real control in my hands (i.e Fanuc/MAPPS/FAPT/CAPS) I know it was crap ;-)

One thing with Okuma is they like to point out that OSP-P300 (latest) is only the 6th generation control (or something like that) and Fanuc and others have had dozens of models in the same time frame. What they don't point out is Fanuc has advanced with their technology to increase the controller power and features based on current computing power whereas Okuma was stuck with old technology OSP5000/OSP7000/OSP-U100 etc for many many years. For example OSP7000 is Motorola 68000-based. This is the same CPU that was in Macs and Amiga computers in mid 80's. In the mid 80's they were GREAT. In 1995 (when my machine was built) not so great.
So to Okuma I say updating controls is good, not bad. They have finally realized that but about 15 years later.

[underthetire]

Ya, the mapps with caps is pretty nice. Okuma was way ahead back in 1985, I mean way ahead, but kinda been resting ever since.

[gunda]

I forgot to consider the Moris, but we don't have much of them in my country. I don't even think we have a dealer...
I've got not as much experience as you but I'm speaking from mine and so far it's a pleasure to work on Okuma OSP rather than Siemens, Mazatrol (way too simplified) or any other that are European and you might not know - TND, Eltroplot, Grundig etc. And one of the good thinks about Okuma is that both the machine and the control are made by them so you don't lose functionality.

[fomaz]

I work daily with Fanuc, both on a lathe and a mill. I can "master" my control, but because I am a great programmer, but because the control allows. And this is the thing that I most like about it, it is more flexible.
Now I am working with a Okuma OSP100. I find it hard to understand, hard to navigate and even hard to see the code (dark green and light green ?!). My eyes go mad on it. But I am still learning it. Maybe it will turn out nice.
Ahh, and support for both Fanuc and Okuma is bad in Portugal, so I am "alone" here. This forum is a great help for me.

[Tancuda]

I've worked with okuma (U100L and P200LA), Fanuc (15T, 21i,0i)
and siemens (840C pretty old) on a 5axis machine, for the last 20 years.

For okuma, the P200 is much much better, but you have to learn it,
iso mode is not hard to learn, and you can built good macros.
Touch screen and windows is great.

Siemens (840C), the macros in the control is incomplete and programming is
totally different and hard to learn. I tried shopmill with the
new control(840 D), and sounds great.

Fanuc, very very flexible if you know what you're doing, you can built very
powerfull macros to make the machine act like you want.
Did work with the conversational mode on
the 0i (mill) and 21i (cylindrical grinder), that could be better, you have to type your data slooooowly, and too much data screen.

If you ask me what control I would choose to work with, all year long,
I would say Okuma P200 (would really want to try P300), and
Fanuc would be second, but on a Fanuc, you have access to all kind of
books and tip on the web and everybody knows a person who knows Fanuc.

Sorry for my english.

[Edster]

Just wanted to add my 2c

I really like the fact that okuma's absolute encoders don't rely on batteries that I have to change. I had a fanuc 31iA for a few years and there are lots of batteries.

It was also a pita on the Fanuc to transfer a program between the compact flash card and the machine. Much easier on the okuma w/ usb or even 3.5 floppy. Why in the world Fanuc still equiped it's new controls with pcmcia and compact flash after usb took over I'll never know. I had to hunt down an adaptor and compact flash card for it.

I also like the built in pc with touchscreen on the okuma. Makes handling files and hooking up eithernet very easy. I also like to store setup notes, and play solitare.

Trying to figure out the AI contour control settings was a major pita on my 31iA. It didn't come with the option where I could specify 1-5 (iirc) based on roughing or finishing passes, so I had to decipher the jinglish manual and all the settings. Which I didn't have the machine long enough to actually do. The okuma high speed machining options are much easier to use. But I never did completley figure out the AI contour control settings so I can't say which is more powerful.

The list of available options for the Fanuc were not readily available, I ended up ordering some options directly from Fanuc after the machine was on my floor. It took forever to get the options installed and it was very expensive.

The Fanuc did perform well, but I'll stick with my okumas, for now

[underthetire]

Well, that's one thing okuma nails you on is options. Cutting new software every time gets expensive. Not all fanucs are created equal, get a 31i on a mori you get USB,networking, conversational programming, PCMCIA slot, and 2-6 gb memory storage standard, as well as high speed contour control on the mills. Also on Fanuc parts, lots and lots of support for repair parts. Anyone that has a mid 90's okuma that had a drive unit go out will attest to the crazy price of a replacement, since they don't support something "that old". I cut my teeth on the osp5000 control, and do love the simplicity of the control, and the quality of the equipment, but once I learned fanuc, i prefer it.

[Edster]

Okuma's not as bad as Fanuc on option pricing. I had two relitively easy options I wanted to install on my 31iA. Helical interpolation, and tool offset memory C. Fanuc wanted $1500 to drive out and another $1500 to install the options. Okuma has never hosed me that bad for driving.

[underthetire]

But okuma would be 2500+ just to cut the software then a service call, so it would be the same. Try getting spare mcodes from okuma! They used to make us go through all kinds of gyrations to get those!

[fordav11]

he might not realize..... on Okumas the options are built into the software. so to get new options requires loading in new system software. On Fanuc they just turn on bits if its a software option.
I wanted to get more user task variables for my Okuma they quoted $5500. I declined.
On Fanuc because it's purely a software option 1 bit gets turned on and I can go from the default (~50) to nearly 1000 user variables. As many people have realized if you know what to do you can get the options yourself without having to bend over and go through an anal reaming ;-)

For PCMCIA, I've been using my CF card for about 10 years with no problems. What you don't realize is that it's a PC-based computer doing the reading/writing. You can't plug in a 4GB card that didn't exist when the PC was made because it doesn't know how to handle it. If you use a card 512M or less it works fine in all cases. Only the very latest machines can accept larger multi-gigabyte CF cards.

[Edster]

But okuma would be 2500+ just to cut the software then a service call, so it would be the same. Try getting spare mcodes from okuma! They used to make us go through all kinds of gyrations to get those!

I've had options installed after the initial machine install. Yes it's best to order them with the machine, but that's probably true for most machine builders.

I've had extra m-codes installed and it's not just a software option.

And yes I'm aware that okuma needs to install new software to enable options it's not just entering a code into the control. But why would that make what Fanuc does any better? They want $1500 to drive out and $1500 to enter two codes for the options I mentioned above. How is that better than Okuma who actually had software engineers create a new cd and a tech install the software. At least they didn't hose me on the drive time and actually did something more than enter a couple codes. Oh and I'm in the south suburbs of Chicago, less than an hour away from Fanuc. There reasoning for the $1500 travel time was that it's a flat rate and it wouldn't be fair to someone farther away if they charged me less

[Edster]

As many people have realized if you know what to do you can get the options yourself without having to bend over and go through an anal reaming ;-)

You might be interested to know that one of the things the Fanuc tech did when he was here was to check to see if there were any options enabled that shouldn't be enabled. He said it was a problem in the past with certain techs spilling the beans about how to enable options and they were cracking down on it. Sooo......if you have any options enabled that shouldn't be make sure you uninstall them prior to having a Fanuc tech out to do any work on your CNC.

[fordav11]

I'm aware of Fanuc techs reversing options. So are most people on these forums. They could change it but anyone who knows would just put it back when they leave. So their actions are pointless and petty. Our Fanuc guy is an authorized agent/repairer, not working for Fanuc directly and AFAIK doesn't care about that kind of B.S.
Anyway this is getting off topic.....