[ZOMGVTEK]

When I was considering the Taig, I of course was looking for videos showing its capabilities. Most every video I found wasn't terribly impressive.

Does anyone have videos of the Taig throwing chips at its physical limits?

I didn't have the time to finish this video, but it's still a considerable amount of chips for such a little machine. I have several hours on the machine at the same feeds and speeds, pocketing and profiling, still on the original endmill. I've proven these feeds and speeds to be reliable enough that I will push it up 2 more IPM and see how that goes. About 80% of the time the machine runs unattended with untested code and I have yet to have chips weld or anything aside from user error.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlSpyA9fnvk]Taig Mill - YouTube[/ame]

Who's got me beat?

[LaserImage]

I don't claim to be a machinist, and I didn't stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night..., but, I have to wonder why you hogged out the entire center of that piece instead of just cutting a path around the inside? It seems like a waste of time and effort. Maybe I'm missing something that would make you do this?

Gary

[ZOMGVTEK]

I find it to be much easier to simply pocket the hole, rather than profile it and require me to secure the waste. Plus, it allows for better chip evacuation and coolant penetration where I need it, likely resulting in a better surface finish and potentially greater dimensional accuracy. A bearing was to be press fit into that.

A machinist called me a machinist once, but I consider myself a hobbyist. I'm not focused on production, just making one or two of something quick and easy. That tends to mean barely adequate fixturing and unusual practices. I'm sure I do things 'wrong' all the time, but the part still gets made how I wanted it. That's good enough for me.

[LaserImage]

If someone called me a machinist I would consider that an insult to all machinists... and that is exactly why I asked.

After re-reading my first post I realized that I should have worded it differently - I apologize that it was a bit harsh sounding, certainly not intentional.

Gary

[ZOMGVTEK]

I post videos and try to describe what I do to make parts, so that others can potentially point out where improvements can be made. I had zero machining experience before a month or two ago. I'm not afraid of a little criticism.

[rlockwood]

When I was considering the Taig, I of course was looking for videos showing its capabilities. Most every video I found wasn't terribly impressive.

Does anyone have videos of the Taig throwing chips at its physical limits?

I didn't have the time to finish this video, but it's still a considerable amount of chips for such a little machine. I have several hours on the machine at the same feeds and speeds, pocketing and profiling, still on the original endmill. I've proven these feeds and speeds to be reliable enough that I will push it up 2 more IPM and see how that goes. About 80% of the time the machine runs unattended with untested code and I have yet to have chips weld or anything aside from user error.

I've never really pushed mine, as its purely used for convenient prototyping of small parts-- but if you're going to make a competition out of it I might be interested.

Its important to compare apples to apples though. While you listed some parameters in your youtube video, its missing the diameter of the cutting tool, so I cant establish a baseline Material Removal Rate.

The equation would be MRCI = IPM X RDOC X ADOC. Under the assumption that its a 1/4" tool, 28x0.2x0.1 = 0.56 cubic inches/minute removal rate. Not bad. Its important to note that troichoidal toolpaths can post some very impressive MRCI numbers, but because they vary the radial engagement, the numbers are often inaccurate. Its more accurate to base the MRCI off of an actual test cut, like you performed.

According to my calculator, the cut you're performing would require ~0.2hp. Given the taig's 1/4hp motor, I doubt anyone will post significantly higher performace-- you're already using all the available horsepower (which i've found to be the taig's major limiting factor)

[ZOMGVTEK]

Whoops, I thought I had included the cutter diameter. It's a 3/16" cutter. I run the same settings for profiling and pocketing to ensure reliability. It has no problem at all profiling at the same settings.

Mine is also typically used for small prototypes, but some parts require massive material removal. I just do most everything with the same endmill so I can walk away and come back to a completed part when I don't hear it groaning. 3/16" tends to work out well for most of my applications. I actually do run into substantial enough deflection that a finish pass is required for even poor tolerances. With very high radial engagement at full DOC, my 10 IPM 'spring' finish pass sometimes isnt even enough.

I simply had no idea this machine was capable of this, and I probably would have purchased one earlier. Most videos I see show poor surface finishes, and 10-20 thou DOC with small endmills at 5-15 IPM.

Since I most always use the same endmill, I'm just going to keep pushing the feeds and speeds up until it presents issues. Very frequently when I need a part prototyped, I need it a week ago. Sounds like I still have some headroom...

[rlockwood]

Whoops, I thought I had included the cutter diameter. It's a 3/16" cutter. I run the same settings for profiling and pocketing to ensure reliability. It has no problem at all profiling at the same settings.

Mine is also typically used for small prototypes, but some parts require massive material removal. I just do most everything with the same endmill so I can walk away and come back to a completed part when I don't hear it groaning. 3/16" tends to work out well for most of my applications. I actually do run into substantial enough deflection that a finish pass is required for even poor tolerances. With very high radial engagement at full DOC, my 10 IPM 'spring' finish pass sometimes isnt even enough.

I simply had no idea this machine was capable of this, and I probably would have purchased one earlier. Most videos I see show poor surface finishes, and 10-20 thou DOC with small endmills at 5-15 IPM.

Since I most always use the same endmill, I'm just going to keep pushing the feeds and speeds up until it presents issues. Very frequently when I need a part prototyped, I need it a week ago. Sounds like I still have some headroom...

That changes some things--

Closer to 0.4 cu/min, but hp required is much lower (0.1)

Also, i've known the rubber band on the spindle to slip before the motor stalls out anyhow, so I'm not certain the stock setup can actually transfer all of the mighty power from the spindle motor to the spindle anyhow.

I agree on the notion of the 'unforseen power' of the taig-- I have a keen suspicion that many of those users failed to properly adjust their mill prior to using. Also- take a look at the tool length of many of the videos. Tool length is a large factor, and most of them seem to be keen on running full length tools. If your part permits the use of a stub-length tool, use it.

[ZOMGVTEK]

On the lower speeds, the belt does slip quite easily. At 10K RPM its been more than adequate, just a bit finicky when changing speeds. Great care needs to be taken that it's as tight as can be.

I'll try and push the machine to the limits tomorrow. It stalled a few times, but that was due to things Z skips or programming errors resulting in full rapid speed profiling. I'll profile a 1" square until it stalls, back it off until it works reliably.

[ZOMGVTEK]

Looks like the machine is essentially deflection limited with this endmill. The surface finish is very poor, and uninterrupted cuts on the profiling result in a massively poor finish presumably from tool deflection.

63.13 IPM as reported by Mach3 is as high as I could take it, since I hit my rapids. I suppose I could increase the rapids a bit and push harder, but the tool might end up breaking from deflection, and surface finish is exceedingly poor as is. Most of the time it was running 85% stepover, but I was raster pocketing, profile pass last, so the first line was done at 180º engagement and it did it.

I'm uploading the video, but it's going to take a while.

[rlockwood]

Looks like the machine is essentially deflection limited with this endmill. The surface finish is very poor, and uninterrupted cuts on the profiling result in a massively poor finish presumably from tool deflection.

63.13 IPM as reported by Mach3 is as high as I could take it, since I hit my rapids. I suppose I could increase the rapids a bit and push harder, but the tool might end up breaking from deflection, and surface finish is exceedingly poor as is. Most of the time it was running 85% stepover, but I was raster pocketing, profile pass last, so the first line was done at 180º engagement and it did it.

I'm uploading the video, but it's going to take a while.

Not sure if i'm understanding correctly, but if you were running similar parameters to the earlier pocketing (.150rdoc/.100adoc) at 63ipm @12,000rpm.. As you said, the tool is now the limiting factor, and you're really close to max tool deflection. I wouldnt expect a regular length 3/16" endmill to last long with those parameters in my Mori Seiki's at work-- and i'm impressed your taig managed without the column coming out of tram, which seems to be a weak point.

If tool deflection is the limiting factor, increase tool rigidity either by increasing tool diameter or decreasing tool length. Do this until you find a different limiting factor In the case of the taig, I believe the spindle nose extends too far from the bearings as well, but I havent devised a simple fix yet. Perhaps they'd sell me a raw extrusion that's about an inch longer than the existing spindle housing.

Anxiously awaiting the video

[ZOMGVTEK]

It was done at .160rdoc, .100adoc, about 10K RPM. The mighty Taig sounded absolutely horrible, I would not recommend these feeds and speeds.

The tool stickout was roughly .650, roughly a .550 cutting edge, and I had .498" 6061-T6511 loaded up, cutting .400 deep.

I trammed my mill twice, just by pressing a square on the bed and the Z column and tightening the bolt. I just recently got a horizontal dial test indicator and some 123 blocks. I wanted to roughly test how far off this method got me, but I knocked it out right before the video. Silly me was running the spindle on in Mach3 with the spindle switched off, to run the exhaust fan on the same relay, and I didn't remember to switch the spindle back on. Apparently Mach3 just plunges right into the material when the spindle is running, I'm used to a 2 second delay. The last two times something like this happened I snapped 3/16" endmills no fuss, didn't even bother to tram again. Apparently these stub endmills are WAY stronger than the 3 flute Lakeshore Carbide ZRN ones I used to use. I snug that bolt up REALLY tight, so it takes a lot to knock it out. I have considered drilling a hole and pounding a pin in there to have it hold tram under any condition.

[ZOMGVTEK]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmeG6LlMEtk]Taig - YouTube[/ame]

[BAMCNC.COM]

Yep, pin it once you tramm to .0005" over 6-10". BUT make sure your spindle dovetail is square to the column, then tramm.

[Menacer]

Im in! We should have some type of standard file or drawing so where all on sorta racing on the same track?? Im definitely in a cuz I think I can win!

[ZOMGVTEK]

How about pocketing a 1" square, .200 deep, 6061-T6? Thats small enough that most people should be able to rummage up some scrap to run a few of these. Competitions are always more exciting with more than two people. Any endmill that fits in the Taig is probably fair enough. Shortest cycle time?

Should there be some sort of dimensional accuracy or surface finish requirement?

...I have a 4 flute super stubby 3/8 carbide endmill that should happily stall the Taigs little motor within my rapid speeds. Deflection won't be a problem there.

[HCE]

Zomvgtek
What are you running for stepper and drivers to obtain that speed?

[ZOMGVTEK]

G540 and 280oz steppers. It's the kit from Deep Grove 1.

[Menacer]

1st off awsome videos guys.. You all probly have a lot of old trimmers gritting at the teath because of this post so thanks for having the balls to start a post like this "zommvgtek!!" Also your 300% right why you hog out chips instead of a 1 line contour as I found out very fast that chips get stuck and that "rubber band" lol., slips

I've used my Taig for about 5 years and I know for a fact that its 1st weeknees is the v-bet.. I used to kill endmills all the time because V-belt slipping for a split second + feed rate = not spinning end mill = busted endmill, you don't need a calculator to understand . ( after my 1st mod I have not lost a end mill to stalling "rubber band" ).

Here's a link to the post.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/taig_m...again_mod.html

This is going to be a hard competition because of all the variants so I'm sure there's not going to be a winner,

But this will be a kick a$$ thread!

[ZOMGVTEK]

The thermal protection on the spindle motor tripped about 25 minutes into pocketing with a 3/8" 3 flute at 6.3 IPM.



I think I need more power.