[toothandnail]

First , NO names unless parts aren't delivered.

We contracted with an outside shop to help us get caught up on a high demand part.

First shipment was a few days past agreed delivery , I was not happy, but parts were excellent quality.
Agreed to another run with X number delivered by the end of the month with the same number delivered at the end each following month.

About 2 weeks later the shop called and said they couldn't deliver , and was out of the deal, NO $$ had changed hands yet , so while VERY unhappy, told them so, as they had wasted 2 VALUABLE weeks that we could have found another shop.

A couple days later shop called back , they felt bad about backing out and agreed to do the job, in the mean time we had worked our butts off trying to compensate for the loss of time and were making them ourselves, but having to push other stuff back to do so.

Deposit was paid for parts to be delivered by Feb 28, around Feb 28, shop called said if we wanted to wait until march 8 they could ship the entire order, we agreed and sent the remaining payment BIG MISTAKE :nono: I KNOW

Now it's March 30, NO PARTS , SAYS they are shipped , NO tracking # , MAYBE they answer 1 out of 10 calls ,
OH last call before they "shipped" I CLEARLY stated to ship them OVERNIGHT !

Did they NOPE , of course not

How long would you wait PAST the agreed time frame for items to be delivered?

What should the next steps be.

Since this was done through e mail and REGULAR mail, is mail fraud a viable way to go? I doubt the cops in his state/town would do much.

[sansbury]

If you're in the same area, small claims is probably going to be your first and best bet. Depending on how much of this is in writing, it's going to come down to whose story the judge thinks is more credible. If you have a record of phone calls (e.g. phone bills) and email trail to substantiate a lot of this, you might have a decent shot at something. If the postal inspectors went after every business who said "Check's in the mail!" we'd have 2/3 of the country behind bars. My first guess is they're just trying to buy more time. Cheapest/easiest thing might be to send a letter, registered mail/return receipt requested, stating that you have not received the parts as promised, and demand that they either be replaced in seven days and sent via overnight w/ confirmation number, or that they refund all monies paid, or you will sue them.

If they're not in the same area, it is still possible to sue them in small claims where you're located, assume they won't show, you get a default judgment, then you would get that judgment "domesticated" in their home state and can get an order to seize money or assets. Yes, it's a huge PITA. I do a lot of business across state lines, and contracts under 3-4k are often uneconomical to collect on. Fortunately most of my clients pay.

If there is any sort of written contract it would be useful to know whether it specifies jurisdiction and/or venue. Jurisdiction is which state's laws will apply, and venue is where you go to court. If you're writing the contract, you should try to put in a clause stating that jurisdiction and venue will be in your home state, county, and city. If you have that then it makes it much easier to litigate any disagreements in your favor.

[BAMCNC.COM]

I wouldnt of waited a week before I was knocking on their door. I'm interested in the shops name, for our benifit really. I have some jobs out right now, and have talked to many people about quotes. This thread only worries me. So do you need a 3rd Tormach 1100 to keep up? LOL

[twocik]

We've been down this road and man I feel for you guys ! I'd hate to say it, but without a contract it's your word against his and a lot of paper work. Emails help because they're connected to that person/business IP address and information. Make sure you keep a record of time spent like this email and so on for paid time loss. What has really shown to be very effective for us was public humiliation and best served cold ! You'll be shocked at how fast it works. You'll pay more for the shops that delivery 110% and on time, but worth every penny when things like this happen. Here are a few suggestions we've used with success.

- Youtube videos
- Google/Maps (where you can comment on the business)
- Twitter
- Facebook
- Linkedin
- Local part of their Craigslist (got a great response from this one)
- BBB (better business bureau)


Good luck and let us know the companies name when you're comfortable.

[Steve Seebold]

I would probably take what he delivers when he delivers it and not do business with the bastard any more.

[mrquacker]

Not everything is on purpose, **** happens sometimes. The customer is not always right. That said, it depends on why they are late. Some reasons merit more understanding than others. From personal experience, at the one shop, having the guy go on a week long alcoholic bender is not nearly as acceptable as at the other shop, where the one machine that could make the part just broke.

[toothandnail]

I would probably take what he delivers when he delivers it and not do business with the bastard any more.

GEE Thanks ,steve , how long should I wait ?

[BAMCNC.COM]

GEE Thanks ,steve , how long should I wait ?

Maybe the guy was on vacation....

[eltejano]

Not everything is on purpose, **** happens sometimes. The customer is not always right. That said, it depends on why they are late. Some reasons merit more understanding than others. From personal experience, at the one shop, having the guy go on a week long alcoholic bender is not nearly as acceptable as at the other shop, where the one machine that could make the part just broke.

Agreed, things do happen.But not being straight up and honest is on purpose.

[toothandnail]

I wouldnt of waited a week before I was knocking on their door. I'm interested in the shops name, for our benifit really. I have some jobs out right now, and have talked to many people about quotes. This thread only worries me. So do you need a 3rd Tormach 1100 to keep up? LOL

Yes, another spindle would help, but 2 machines are keeping us about as busy as we can handle, if we got another machine we'd also need an operator. I now spend a GOOD part of the day with orders and shipping.

OHH, , OK going on vacation would be an acceptable reason to not keep your word, WHAT was I THINKING(chair)

[toothandnail]

Well looks like he's lied to me again , Steve at Mid Day Machine has stolen $2600.00 from me at this point, and I highly doubt I'll ever see the parts or a refund.

I guess I help fund his $180,000.00 motorhome he was bragging about, YOUR WELCOME STEVE, I hope your enjoying it.

Maybe instead of giving advice on how others should run their business/make stuff , you should make the parts you have been PAID to make , and have SAID they were SHIPPED .

[echokid]

This situation sucks. I would find out where he is located if in a reasonable driving distance go and get the parts or the money.

I would be glad to give a quote for these parts. I could use a good steady job to run every month. Guaranteed on time delivery with 100% satisfaction.

Just PM me and i will gladly give you a quote.

Jake

[ChrisAttebery]

Tooth,

I'm sorry to hear of your problems with Steve. I've done business with him in the past and he has always delivered the parts I paid for. As you said the parts always looked great and for me were worth the wait, but I was never on a tight schedule.


Chris

[David Bord]

Im sure Steve wants to clear his name with you. While he may have let you down, I suspect he will stand tall and give you the parts, or your money. Its doubtful that he wants his fellow Tormach posters to know he didn't clean up this mess no matter what caused it. If he doesn't, he will loose all credibility.

In the end you have nothing but your word and your integrity.

Steve, what say you?

David

[toothandnail]

I REALLY don't know what happened , I USED to respect what Steve had to say, went back and read A LOT of old threads he posted in.

I feel, I bent WAY over backwards trying give him the benefit of the doubt, but after THREE times of being told the parts had shipped or were shipping tomorrow , or Monday.
I received this this morning , the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak.
If you guys think I'm out of line let me know , but SHORT of a loooong road trip , I don't see much recourse. BELIEVE me if he was closer ,we'd be nose to nose till it was fixed.

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A refund ain't gonna happen. I haven't answered you in a few days because I am out of town. I won't be back till April 12th or 13th.

Not much I can do before then.
You can buy good parts or you can buy cheap parts, but you can't buy good cheap parts.

[BAMCNC.COM]

I nailed it! (no pun intended). Tooth, I would help you if I could, for one I strongly believe in what your doing, but I have my hands so full with KS right now I wouldn't even want to say I could help.

[Winks]

He has zero history of being a flake. When I had a heart attack I was out of action for a week or two. But I let people know that I was out of action and why.

[Steve Seebold]

Yes, I was late. I have been accused of stealing his money. That couldn't be any further from the truth.

I had a mini stroke (TIA) in early March, and it set me back a few weeks. This is not a new experience for me though. I had cardiac bypass surgery in October 2007 and since then I have had a total of 7 TIA's. I am on time with my deliveries 99% of the time, but these things set me back a little. It has taken as long as a month and a half for me to get back to about 85% and the rest is a long hard recovery. I keep trying to work because I gotta have something to do. I can't just sit on my a$$ and wait to die.

I have left my shop/home/garage for a while to recover from this latest incident in Desert Hot Springs. I hope to return by April 21st.

I apologize for making THIS delivery late, and promise I will NEVER ask to do work for this gentleman again.

[Winks]

My old boss had a stroke. It caused fuzzy thinking on his part that was bad enough he had to close the shop.
I am still giving Steve the benefit of a doubt. Some things just don't give you any option for business as usual.

[gjvander]

I never thought I would see the word "hater" in this forum.

Steve,

Perhaps a a short note to your customer to explain that it was medical problem would have gone a long ways towards avoiding this thread all together.

Hope you are feeling better.

Kind regards,

Geo