[bernardfrance]

Hi,
as new member on cnc zone, my request is not original or unusual but i'd like to receive some help before first ordering in China. After a lot of friendly mails exchanges about a laser cutting machine and cnc router, i reveived a suitable proposal from Jinan qichen machinery. Does anyone knows something about this company because i didn't find any advice concerning qichen machinery on any forum.As i received also proposal from G.Weike, please let me know some comments about these chinese companies.

Thanks a lot,

Bernd

[Exsecratio]

Hi Bernard,

Jinan are a good company but not as well known (although just as big) but G.Weike are excellent.They have a fantastic response time to enquiries and the girls from Weike are often seen posting here. All round a very good company to deal with.
Jinan Q have a large number of bigger machines available but it all depends what you are looking for.

best wishes

Dave

[bernardfrance]

Hi Dave,
thank you for your valuable advice because without any information i had a real doubt(i didn't find a single word about Qichen despite extensive research on internet).
Dave, are you a professional user of this type of machine ? In my case, i own a small company near dunkerque (North France) specialized in cutting and processing flexible materials (rubber and plastics).
Best regards,

bernard

[Gweikelasers]

To be frank, have not heard about qichen earlier either.

[lrob]

I have had me GWeike for about 2.5 years and am very pleased with both the quality and service.

Larry

[GWEIKE-LASER]

GWEIKE Laser have more than 8 years producting and exporting experience.
the quality of machine and after-sale-service is beter and beter

Jenny
--Gweike laser

[bernardfrance]

Dear Jenny,
Thank you for your message, i respect your viewpoint and do not have any doubt about the great reputation of your company and all round your commercial and technical team, but you may understand that i mainly need neutral advice such as Dave and Larry to compare and make the good decision.

Bernard

[bernardfrance]

Larry,
thanks a lot for your reply. I'm glad to receive a message from a machine user. What kind of machine do you own . What's your main processing? (plastic materials, wood...).
Regards

Bernard

[Rodney Gold]

I would infinitely rather go with the known and tried and trusted supplier than an unheard of one.. my unbiased opinion is to go with G weike
I bought from Shenhui , but to be fair had gone to their factory in Liaocheng city and seen and was impressed with their operation.

[bernardfrance]

Rodney,
it' s nice to receive such a reasoned advice, you. In fact i also got a proposal from shenhui, but with so many offers further to my inquiry i'm a little bit desapointed.
As you seems to be an experienced guy,from your side,If you'd have to place an order for cnc router and large laser cutting machine what would be your supplier choice ?

Awaiting your kind reply,

Bernard

[Rodney Gold]

My supplier of choice would be Shenhui..I have 2 of their lasers and had them for 2 years , and use them 8 hours a day , 5 days a week in a very rugged environment , the users are not at all technical and are not highly trained graphics ppl either and they cope admirably. Maintenace is no more and indeed less than any expensive equivalent "western" laser, parts are a LOT cheaper
I have had no issues with them and on the odd occasion where I have wanted tech advice , it has been instantly forthcoming. I spent 2 days at their factory and was amazed at the scale of their operation they do all sorts of lasers and make their own CnC's
Have a look at this thread and register to see the pictures. Foillow all the subthreads , to see the factory pics , look at the "despatches from China" subthread.
Chinese laser purchase/Shenui/Laserworks tips and tricks thread
I have no commercial ties to any laser/cnc co, it really doesn't matter to me who anyone buys from... I would just avoid unheard of companys.
You can see soime of what I do and make with the lasers in the acrylics award section of my website (I do a LOT more besides that)
Toker Bros Trophy and Awards - Acrylics - Acrylics

[Exsecratio]

Hi Bernard,

I tend to do more industrial laser work rather than retail, my mainstay for many years was metal cutting using Mistubishi machines but have owned several Chinese made machines since.

There are a lot of people on CNCzone with opinions....opinions are like noses though, everybody has one the people to look out for are people like Rod Gold, a clever chap with a LOT of experience, if he's saying go with Shen you can be sure the reasons behind it are valid and reasoned.
I also agree about western lasers being expensive to buy and operate, in many cases this isn't because they are any better, it's simple economics, production costs in the west are FAR higher than they are in China.

Sure RF machines can be faster or give better quality, the epilogs etc are very good machines but you pay a premium for that. The downside is you also keep paying a premium when it comes to repairs (ALL machines break at some point no matter what anybody says) for me the idea of an almost "throw away" Chinese machine makes good economic sense.
With mine I rag hell out of them until they break, by then they have paid for themselves many times over so they just get dumped and a new replacement ordered. Doing that on a £5,000 chinese machine is easy, doing it with an equivalent £40,000 western machine wouldn't be possible.

Like Rodney, I have no gain from whatever anybody decides to buy

best wishes

Dave

[bernardfrance]

Rodney,
i spent a lot of time on your website and have had a good and funny time when i read on your thread your journey in China. I congratulate you for the quality of your site on which we can see laser cutted items and your machines ( amazing range of trophy).Further to your kind messages i fell now more confident to order for the first time in China (first machine buying).
On my side, i plan to buy a laser cutting machine (1500x2500mm with 150w laser tube) in order to cut mainly rubber sheets up to 8mm and a cnc router 1200x1200mm with 3kw spindle to cut and drill pehd and other thick plastic plates for industry needs.
Thanks a lot for your help.

Bernard

[Exsecratio]

Only thing to be aware of Bernard is the large flatbed machines don't have a motorised rise and fall to the beds focus is done manually by adjusting the laser lens holder and can be a pit picky to set up.

Levelling is also very important, their strength for their size is limited so out of level bedding can cause problems.

May be worth looking at improved extraction as gantry tube machines extract via the underside of the bed and the extraction that comes with them is ...suspect...to say the least.

best wishes

Dave

[Rodney Gold]

I would be very wary of buying an open machine to cut rubber , most of the 2500 x 1250 machines are open machines, and 8mm might be too thick for even a 150W tube ..
Rubber stinks like crazy when you cut it , imagine burning tyres in your workshop and an open machine has not got effective exhaust facilities so I would suggest a 1500 x 1250 enclosed laser if you don't HAVE to have 2.5m x 1.25m. The enclosed machines will mostly allow you to engrave long stuff as you can ask for a slot front and back (which you can close if not needed with normal size stuff) to enable feeding of longer material (tho if these are open , the stink will be worse than when closed)
You will have the added benefit with one of those of doing engraving at a realistic speed (tho a 150W tube isn't ideal for fine work) Even if you do have a good exhaust , rubber still stinks and unless you have no neighbours or have no pollution or environmental laws where you are , you might have to get a fume scrubber of some sort or make sure your laser exhausts high in the sky (which will require heavy duty and very potent exhaust blowers)
Rubber isn't that easy to cut on a laser , especially hard variants. the other issue is that the laser beam looks like this X and not like this || when it exits the lens.
The beam converges and diverges away from the focal point and will really only cut well at the sharpest point of the X. There is a an area above and below this that will still work , but with the normal lenses supplied (50mm) this is small - maybe 3-4mm .. you will need a 2" (100mm) lens .. the problem with longer lenses is the spot size of the laser beam gets a lot bigger , so your 150w concentrated on a small spot gets "diluted" when the spot gets bigger , effectively giving you a much less powerful laser. Add to this that the cut width becomes bigger and the edges of the cut piece might not be dead straight. they might have a )( shape...
Don't be swayed by the fact that the laser you choose can cut 20mm perspex or acrylic , the acrylic acts as a wave guide to the beam and the typical X thing doesn't apply. I would definitely spend a few Euros and send some material you wish to cut to whomever you want to buy from and let em show you videos and send you back the samples of the cut pieces for you to determine edge quality , speed of cut etc.
I don't have a chinese CnC router , use an Australian make called Tekcel and it uses a perske spindle.. friends of mine with chinese machines have been pretty happy with theirs , so I think you will be as well. Its not a difficult task to cut plastics .. all you really need is the right bit and the right speed and feed.

[bernardfrance]

Dave,
your opinion confirm the choice of supplier as Rodney. I wonder what size of laser machine do you own?l power tube?
Regarding western laser prices, i also agree they are expensive : in france i got a price of 45000€ for a 9060 laser cutting machine (80w power tube).
Dave, you're mainly cutting metal, but, have you ever tried to cut other materials like wood, rubber or plastics?if you did, do you think it's difficult to cut foam or rubber foam with the laser technology?
to better understand my issues,have a look on our website if it has some interest for you : ACCUEIL

Regards,

Bernard

[Exsecratio]

Hi Bernard,

For non metallic cutting I use a 1200 x 900 chinese machine fitted with an 80 watt tube but also have a 200 Watt GSI tube that can be swapped in and out when required.

Foam is a moot point...avoid ANYTHING that contains chlorides such as PVC as it liberates chlorine gas (it will kill both the machine and you ) a quick dirty test (but by no means a perfect test) is to burn a small piece of the material in a clean gas flame, if the flame goes green it contains chlorine and MUST be avoided.

Like Rod says, rubber stinks when cut, some rubbers also contain chlorides (as an elastomer) so care must be taken.

Again I agree, an enclosed machine is really a must have if your cutting materials that liberate toxic or smelly fumes.

I've worked on the big Chinese flatbeds and to be honest I don't like them much, they are too open and in many cases will not conform to factory regulations in the EU unless safety modifications are made (screens, extraction, safety barriers) two machines in the 1300mm range will cost less than one 2500mm model and may be better economy.

Most of the big flatbed come with 75mm / 3 inch focal lengths anyways so the bigger tube will offer less power (effective radiated power) as the spot size is bigger.

Have a read of these for an explanation.

OPLaser support forum ? View topic - Understanding Power Density (PD)

OPLaser support forum ? View topic - Understanding Depth Of Field (DOF)

best wishes

Dave

[bernardfrance]

Rodney,
you well understand our need.
Some details :
-rubber sheets dimensions : 1400 or 1500mm width x 10000mm length (can cut of shorter lengths)
-We have mainly to cut from 1 to 5mm thickness (sometimes 8mm)
-Hardness 65 shore (not hard)
-we'd like to use this machine to cut single product or wide gasket small series without the specific tools we use to cut under press.
I note your comments about the opened machine : i'll send a new inquiry for a closed machine with a slot front and back. Regarding the smell and dust : what do you think about a suction system on the laser head ?
I agree with you to send a few sample to determine the better features for the works we have to do but we don't need high accuracy.
Regards,

Bernard

[Rodney Gold]

Great FAQ site Dave , should be required reading...

[bernardfrance]

Dave,
you sent an interesting message with a few points [health warning;machine stability;CE conformity;power concentration). i must confess that i have to spend more time to understand the last point due to my bad english level. Nevertheless the whole informations i have got on this forum are very valuable. i'm grateful for the time you spent Rodney and you to reply. I enjoyed the great quality of your comments.
I must leave...
See you later (i hope)

Regards,

Bernard