[SCzEngrgGroup]

Ray,

See attached picture... I haven't powered up my mill for a couple months, and today when I powered it up the PDB screen only shows black boxes on the top line. The PDB works fine, but the screen is messed up. Any ideas?

Scott...

Attachment 311068

Scott,

First thing I'd suggest is un-plug and re-plug the 6-pin connector. Your shop is pretty open to the elements, so you may have some corrosion on the connector terminals. If the MCU on your board is socketed (I believe it should be....), un-plug and re-plug that as well (with the power OFF!). Let me know what happens, and we'll go from there. If the LCD has failed, it will be the first one!

Regards,
Ray L.

[sagreen]

Scott,

First thing I'd suggest is un-plug and re-plug the 6-pin connector. Your shop is pretty open to the elements, so you may have some corrosion on the connector terminals. If the MCU on your board is socketed (I believe it should be....), un-plug and re-plug that as well (with the power OFF!). Let me know what happens, and we'll go from there. If the LCD has failed, it will be the first one!

Regards,
Ray L.

Unpluged and repluged the 6pin connector and unforunately it didnt fix the problem. I dont see anything that is socketed on my board. Seems the arduino is soldered in.

Scott...

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Volunteers Needed....

I am looking for one or two guinea pi.... Er, I mean, volunteers to get the first production Torus Pro ATCs. I am on what I am confident is the last round of reliability testing, and am already starting to gear up for the first actual production units. The system has been through many months of gruelling torture testing both here, and with my beta tester, which has resulted in quite a few minor, but nonetheless significant, design revisions. While we have done everything possible in the way of "in-house" testing, it would be naive to believe there will not be at least a few minor issues when the first units ship to customers. I honestly believe any such problems will be exceedingly minor, and almost certainly limited to firmware and software problems which can be addressed by a quick download and update. If any hardware changes (mechanical or electronic) are made in the course of this testing, you will be provided with those updated parts, so your system will be brought fully up to the final "production" spec.

So, I am looking for two "early adopters" who are willing to accept that there may be some small inconveniences in early use. What I really need are people who are already familiar with the machine, proficient in its operation, and who will be able to immediately install the system and put it to extensive use, and report any problems or issues you might encounter, as well as suggest changes which would enhance usability. Ideally, you will have one of the more recent production machines, which is pre-configured for ATC mounting. However, that is not a hard requirement. If/when a problem is found, you will need to be able to reduce the issue to a reproducible test case, so I can re-create it, and fix it. In most cases, I would expect the fixes to come in a matter of hours. The focus must be on actually using the system as much as possible, and reporting any and all problems or concerns.

One requirement: You must be located in the Continental US. Shipping time and cost outside the US would be a killer....

Anyone interested? If so, please PM me.

Regards,
Ray L.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Hey! Whatever happened to that guy that said he was going to produce a toolchanger for the Novakon mills??

Well, he's been up to his eyeballs in torture testing that ATC for months! But, I'm happy to say, testing is DONE! The ATC is now "signed off" for production. The testing, while incredibly time-consuming, was very well worth the effort. It uncovered a few areas of potential wear, a few components that needed some improvement, and numerous firmware bugs. Now that all that is in the rear-view mirror, I have a design that is fairly straight-forward to produce, and VERY reliable. The final phase of testing consisted of letting the ATC run continuous, back-to-back toolchanges 8 hours a day for a week. By my count, one day of testing is the equivalent of several weeks of normal, 8 hours a day use. During that week, I encountered a single PDB "jam" (first I've seen in a very long time, but not surprising considering the drawbar itself has been subjected to literally tens of thousands of toolchanges during testing), and two pretty obscure firmware bugs, both now fixed. I expect the average toochange failure rate to be one failure in tens of thousands of toolchanges, but I'm not going to take the time to prove that. The nice thing is, it never once "dropped" a tool. All failures were detected early, and the toolchange aborted before any harm was done. The reason for each failure was always correctly reported in the error message.

There are only three design areas that need a little updating for production - the brackets, the "shrouds", and the cabling. The VERY beefy final brackets will be made by a third party - laser cut in 1/4" steel, bent/welded, and yellow chromate plated. The shrouds require a few minor "tweaks", to integrate the "front panel" into the upper carousel shroud, and the compensate for several dimensional changes over the last several months. Tomorrow I'll be getting checked out on a ShopBot CNC router so I can use it to make the 3D-routed forms for the final vacuum-formed shrouds. The cabling just need little time spent on final routing, and constraining.

Here are a couple of photos, and a short video, of the final prototype. The production ATC will look very much like this, except for the carousel bracket will be COMPLETELY different, and the LCD and front-panel switches will be integrated into the upper part of the carousel shroud. The final bracket will "hang" the carousel from above, making it VERY easy to install and remove (just three bolts!).

I've decided to go with red anodize for most of the aluminum parts, black for some of them. The Red looks really nice next to all the black plastic parts. Stainless steel will be used for the few parts that are subject to wear, or where corrosion, due to coolant use, might be an issue.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtlFKTruCSI

Regards,
Ray L.

[Hirudin]

Done!? Congrats!

Looks really good and I got ~35 seconds for that toolchange, so maybe ~40 if the tool was in the opposite side of the carousel? Certainly about as fast as someone standing there at the ready.

Note: I timed badly, corrected in the next post. 24 seconds per tool change is the actual timing.
To save anyone else the math: 7 days * 8 hours / 36 seconds is 5600 tool changes (100 per hour).

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Average toolchange time is 24 seconds, not 35. About 150/hour.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Hirudin]

Oops, you're right. I accidentally timed 1.5 tool changes.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Oops, you're right. I accidentally timed 1.5 tool changes.

Tool position actually makes very little difference in overall toolchange cycle time - perhaps a second or so, as it takes only very slightly longer to seek to the opposite side of the carousel than it does to seek to either adjacent tool. With adjacent tools, it'll average 22-23 seconds, and with a maximum seek (6 tools), 23-24 seconds. Many things factor into overall toolchange time, and there is an overall variability of 2-4 seconds on the vast majority of changes, with 23-24 seconds as a reasonable overall average value. In the very rare case where something does go wrong - a failed seek, PDB hiccup, etc. - it can be longer, as it may have to re-home one or more "axes", and re-try one or more steps of the sequence up to two more times before throwing up its hands and throwing an error. It's very smart about detecting and dealing with errors, and it is very rare that it can't complete a toolchange successfully, even if it takes a few seconds longer due to "soft" errors.

Regards,
Ray L.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

And.... Here is the final model of the production unit, missing only the two "drag chains" that run from the top of the transfer arm drive to the carousel bracket:

Attachment 316928

Regards,
Ray L.

[RCaffin]

Hi Ray

Remind me - how do you load tools into the carousel?

Cheers
Roger

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Hi Ray

Remind me - how do you load tools into the carousel?

Cheers
Roger

Many different ways. Simplest is using the ATC front panel - you can rotate the carousel to any position, unlock the tool, remove it, and insert a different one. Locing is a manual operation (pressing the "Down" button), but locking occurs automatically as soon as you insert the new tool into the carousel. Swapping a tool out takes only a few seconds. There are more sophisticated ways of doing it using the Web interface, the "console' (a serial or telnet connection to the ATC controller), or, for most users, probably the Mach3 "ATC Wizard" or the MachStdMill "ATC Page". These all allow you to simultaneously setup the tool numbering and logical-to-physical mapping. With MachStdMill, after loading the tools into the carousel, you can also have it automatically measure and set all the tool length offsets using a simple, inexpensive passive touchplate.

Regards,
Ray L.

[RCaffin]

With MachStdMill, after loading the tools into the carousel, you can also have it automatically measure and set all the tool length offsets using a simple, inexpensive passive touchplate.

Yeah, that's the nice bit.

Cheers
Roger

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Anyone here do CNC routing on MDF? I'm about to use a ShopBot to make all the new forms for the vacuum-formed plastic parts, and I've never done CNC routing before. I'm looking for some confirmation that my feeds and speeds are in the ballpark. Unless I hear different, I'm planning on starting with 12K RPM, 70 IPM, using a 1/4" 2-flute straight carbide router bit, with 0.275" depth/pass. It will be almost entirely slotting, to cut out straight-sided parts, with a few pieces that are 3D routed on their tops, using Adaptive clearing, followed by a parallel finish pass, and, finally, a pencil-line cut along the inside corners. I've "sliced" all the forms into 3/4" slices to be routed, then will glue them together, and do a quick sanding to smooth them.

Regards,
Ray L.

[RCaffin]

Not an expert on MDF, but from the small amount I have done, I got the impression that a) I was ploughing through 6' of fluff and b) that you could go a bit faster. It's AWFUL stuff! SIAS.

Cheers
Roger

[daniellyall]

with mdf depending on the grade and hp I do 1250 mm/min, 21000 rpm 6mm depth of cut 100% width, on cheap router bits, better quality 9 mm depth of cut 100% width of cut all done with ramping in, the machine has a 3 Hp spindle. with proper MDF cutter's a hell of a lot more.

it could go faster but the machine runs out of accuracy above 1250 mm/min.

the only thing to watch for is the chips MDF does not have chips like normal wood if it come's of as dust something is to fast, if it comes of like powder snow it's about right if you can smell it and it smell like toast that's bad the smell should not change.
it goes up in flames fast if it is way off, ripping a dust extractors pipes and dust bag out is not fun when it's on fire

I would double check with Ger21 he does it for a job

[SCzEngrgGroup]

A UI question for people:

The "front panel" on the ATC consists of an LCD and a rocker switch, like the power window switches in a car. At present, the switch is mounted on the right of the LCD. Someone today raised the question of whether it would be better to put the switch to the left of the LCD. Honestly, I don't have a clue. It would seem to me more natural for most people to operate the switch with their right hand, but I am left-handed, so perhaps I'm wrong. It's trivial to change, so might as well try to get it right now.

The primary use for the front panel will probably be for loading and unloading tools from the carousel, through several operations:

1) Load tools to empty slots: The operation is started by a menu selection on the LCD. Once selected, the carousel is positioned to the first empty slot. Once a tool is inserted, it is automatically locked into the carousel, and the carousel automatically rotates to the next empty slot.

2) Unload tools: The operation is started by a menu selection on the LCD. Once selected, the carousel is positioned to the first occupied slot. A press of the "Down" switch releases the tool. Once the tool to removed, the carousel automatically rotates to the next occupied slot.

3) Load tools sequentially: The operation is started by a menu selection on the LCD. Once selected, if the current slot is empty, the lock is released. If the current slot is not empty, the lock remains set, and a press of the "Down" switch releases the tool. In either case, when the slot is empty, once a tool is inserted, it is automatically locked into the carousel, and the carousel automatically rotates to the next slot.

Any opinions as to switch/LCD location? Here's what it looks like now:

Attachment 320160

Regards,
Ray L.

[RCaffin]

I am slightly tempted to suggest having two switches - one on the left and one on the right, AND to require that they both be pressed at the same time.
Otherwise - 52% for RHS, 48% for LHS.

Cheers

[neilw20]

As long as you can hold the two switches with one hand.
You might need the other hand to hold/catch/put a tool or some such.

[kvom]

When I load a tool manually on my NM200 I hold it in my left and tighten the drawbar with my right. On my Bridgeport with an air-operated drawbar it's just the opposite since the button is on the left.

My conclusion is that it doesn't matter, at least for me.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

OK, I think I'll leave it as-is. It can always be changed later if it's really an issue for anyone. The switch understands "gestures" - single click, double-click, click-and-hold - just like a computer mouse or touchpad. Since most people are right-handed, they will be adept at making these gestures with their right hand, so it should come fairly naturally. The only time I could see two hands being required was when removing a tool from the carousel, which required the user to hold the tool in one hand, and click button with the other. I've eliminated that case by adding a one-second delay between the button is clicked, and when the tool is released, so you can now easily click the button, then grab the tool with the same hand, before the lock is released. So, I think all operations can now be just as easily carried out with either hand.

BTW - Can anyone recommend a decent, low-cost, video camera, preferably waterproof, so I can get some good videos of the ATC in action? I'd like something I can mount inside the enclosure, to get some good videos of ATC operation, and machining in-process. I have a water-proof WiFi IP surveillance camera in there right now, which I use for remote-testing the ATC. It works great, except, incredibly, it provides no way to record its video stream! It works ONLY with the application provided with it.

Regards,
Ray L.