[hugh jass]

Hello all. Just wondering if 2 years of CNC school is worth it in this day and age? Im 37 and about to go back to school for aviation mechanics but will probably scrap that idea too because Im getting a lot of negative feedback from guys in that field. I know everybody would love a "sure thing" but Ive already gone to the Police Academy and cant even get hired in our current police state. Just wondering if theres steady work out there for cnc programmers. I troll alot around here and it seems like a lot of companies hire cnc guys temporarily or part-time to get machines up and running then let them go. Is this correct? What can a guy right out of school expect to make? Any feedback appreciated.

[RFB]

hugh jass,

Companies hire and fire CNC programmers because they are not capable of producing functional programs. You could attend school for three years and still not be able to produce working programs. I worked for a company that built bombers and their programming department was so bad that the company purchased CNC machines and put them in the conventional mill shop where the more capable operators would write programs and produce parts that NC programming could not produce a working programs for. If you are contemplating a career in CNC programming then you are at a minimum of ten years away from being able to hold a job as a CNC programmer. You could memorize a Chinese Bible in less time then it would take you to learn how to read blueprints, learn CATIA or any other CAD/CAM program, build tool libraries and set speeds and feeds based on the material.

RFB

[wwendorf]

Wow. That was a discouraging post. I don't think that is a realistic expectation at all. You would probably learn the basics and be able to get in an entry level position. Then, you could get the opportunity to cut your teeth on a few simple programs if you find an understanding boss. Get a little experience. Probably want to get yourself a machine at home, or be given permission to make your own parts on company equipment on your own time. You would have to work your way up, depending on your desire and drive.

The biggest question that you need to ask yourself is what do YOU want to be doing for the rest of your life? If you have a love of something, make it your career. Someone will pay you to do what you like to do. If you love machining and want to be a machinist, you will do whatever it takes. I got lucky. I have a friend that has cnc equipment. He started teaching me techniques. I have a desire for making things and cnc enables that for me. My training was "self-taught" with a lot of assistance by my friend. Yours might be a cnc school. If you really want to be a cop, you will do whatever it takes to become a cop, including moving to a city/state that has openings. I don't do cnc for a living (yet) but I'm working my way up to that. I do make a very nice chunk of change on the side however doing it.

My career is a computer programmer. Websites, applications, stuff like that. Formal school was NOT a good choice for me. I was already far beyond the professor when I entered the school and it didn't do me any good other than cost me a LOT of money. I taught myself everything I know, and I've been doing it professionally for over 15 years. Of course, you do something for so long, you start to get a bit tired of it and want to move on. I would like to do that with machining.

Hope this helps,
Wade

[Al_The_Man]

The biggest question that you need to ask yourself is what do YOU want to be doing for the rest of your life? If you have a love of something, make it your career. Someone will pay you to do what you like to do.
Wade

I agree entirely, I think the main quest as mentioned is to try and follow a career based on you personal desires, you learn a lot faster this way and generally pursue it in your own time which adds greatly to your eventual experience and reputation.
I consider myself one of the fortunate that I did not work a day in my life, it was something I loved to do, so I do not define it as 'Work'.
Al.

[a1diesinker]

hugh jass,

Companies hire and fire CNC programmers because they are not capable of producing functional programs. You could attend school for three years and still not be able to produce working programs. I worked for a company that built bombers and their programming department was so bad that the company purchased CNC machines and put them in the conventional mill shop where the more capable operators would write programs and produce parts that NC programming could not produce a working programs for. If you are contemplating a career in CNC programming then you are at a minimum of ten years away from being able to hold a job as a CNC programmer. You could memorize a Chinese Bible in less time then it would take you to learn how to read blueprints, learn CATIA or any other CAD/CAM program, build tool libraries and set speeds and feeds based on the material.

RFB

He's right unless you understand cnc machining you can't program. I've been doing it since the 80's I make a good living now being a applications engineer
but I spent a long time on the shop floor before I got here

[wwendorf]

I agree with this as well. I started out manual machining. Granted, it was on an itty-bitty little sherline, but, I spent 5 years making very accurate parts that way. The nice thing about doing something manually is that you get to understand how the metal behaves when you have some feedback in your hands. You don't get that with CNC.

To this day, I sometimes use my cnc manually by just jogging because it's faster to get done what I want to get done doing it that way. I sometimes wish I had handwheels because for some things I'd use them if I had them.

Wade

He's right unless you understand cnc machining you can't program. I've been doing it since the 80's I make a good living now being a applications engineer
but I spent a long time on the shop floor before I got here

[ifixcnc]

Most of the schools are sub-par as well, at least in my neck of the woods.

[handlewanker]

Hmmmm, it seems you have to re-invent your life and start at ground zero like doing an apprenticeship but at an early age before the baggage train of life takes hold and you really need the weekly paycheck to keep the wolf from the door.

The beauty of CNC is that you could make a living at home when you get into it, but at the beginning it's all uphill without a paddle.

I like the inference that you could memorise a Chinese Bible sooner than you could become proficient for the work place, but as has been said, if it takes 10 years to get there, that's the same as starting out doing an apprenticeship, and the wage structure would be about the same.
Ian.

[RFB]

Wow. That was a discouraging post. I don't think that is a realistic expectation at all. You would probably learn the basics and be able to get in an entry level position. Then, you could get the opportunity to cut your teeth on a few simple programs if you find an understanding boss. Get a little experience. Probably want to get yourself a machine at home, or be given permission to make your own parts on company equipment on your own time. You would have to work your way up, depending on your desire and drive.

wwendorf,

Yes my post was discouraging but, it's based in reality. Why encourage a person to take a dead end route? Twenty or thirty years ago there might have been opportunities for on the job training. However in today's economy employers are fighting to keep their businesses out of the red and when possible sub par employees are terminated. The OP revealed his total lack of knowledge when he stated that employers hire NC programmers to get their machines running and then terminate the programmers.

When and if there is a demand for NC programmers then new comers will be at the back of the long line of experienced NC programmers that will be seeking employment.

RFB

[wwendorf]

RFB, I do see the points, but at the same time, if it's something someone wants to do, they will make it work for themselves and they will excel at it. If they are only doing it to "have a job", then they probably won't have the drive and ambition to make it. If somethings worth doing, do it well and you will excel.

I know people who love working in fast food restaurants. You wouldn't catch me dead working in one of those. But, some people love it and I know someone who pulls over $45k doing it. They are happy with the money they make, they are happy with their job, and happy with their lives. A lot of us would say that working in fast food is poverty work. But is it based in reality? For a high school or college kid who needs spending money, it serves it's purpose.

Life is what you make of it. If you let the realities of life kick your but, your butt is kicked. If you make life work for you, you do the kicking. LOL. That was one of mine.

Cheers, and good luck in whatever you decide to do hugh jass!
Wade

[hugh jass]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Im probably taking a different route. I appreciate your time.

[handlewanker]

Hi Hugh, at 37 unless you have most of your outgoing commitments under control, you will be hard pressed to earn a living while you are at the starting point.

At 47 if you are up there with the regulars doing what you want to do, then a 10 year learning curve might be an interesting journey, probably shorter if you gear yourself to hyper drive and get very self motivated.

The commitment to a career move is only as good as the effort you put into it and the goal you want to achieve, and if CNC is a goal you really must do and nothing else is worth doing, you'll find a way or make a way.

I started out in engineering at age 14 in my father's garage making model steam engines, and that was a career path I knew I just had to have.....60 years later, being retired for the last 10, I still can't get enough of Engineering to satisfy me, and now want to go the CNC path just for fun.
Ian.

[underthetire]

We always said you make just enough money as a machinist that you can't quit and do something you'd like to. I was fortunate to get out of making parts. I didn't mind the prototype stuff, but I hated production. 10 years is the magic number before you start making ok money, but 10 years in medical and your killing it, or as a lawyer. Machining as we all know it is dying. Honestly, the new manufacturing I believe will be additive manufacturing. Some stuff will still require finishing with some machining, but 10 years from now everything will just be printed.

[handlewanker]

I don't think I can wait 10 years for all the current CNC machinery to be "rescued" from the scrap yards and auction houses.

You can't ignore progress, otherwise we'd still be browsing catalogues for the latest spare parts for our belt driven centre lathes......... the overhead line shaft type I mean, all driven by a coal fired steam engine.

You've got to be a real old stick in the mud Dinosaur to want to go back to those days.

Now there are jobs and there are jobs, making parts in production is OK if you are making small batches and varied at that, but if you get tied into continuous production you are no better than a semi skilled operator who is not required to think, and that goes for CNC too.

There is just no money in one off jobs no matter how specialised they may be, and you have to be highly specialised to do anything they throw at you as well, there is no place for a learner there.

A CNC school may well be the place to go if it gives you some qualification that is recognised for job status, but you have to start somewhere and just working around the shops doing a bit of this and that gives you only word of mouth qualifications.

I've worked in many places where many people came in on the broom and got elevated to machine minding, and many of them spent all their lives working in that environment, some progressed to better things by courage and determination.
Ian.