[Tickfawriver]

You might want to consider something like this, try to keep side hole patterns the same and use CNC to do face holes as CNC is easy to adapt to different hole patterns. In the end it really doesn't matter where the holes are as long as you have the right program loaded.

Yes, this is what I am thinking at this time.

It a one man operation on the drilling.

Thanks for the sugestion on the dry lube I will definitely use it.

Just for my interest, if you all would sugest a machine for simply drilling holes in the top of my enclosures which one would it be?

Thanks,

Randy

[wizard]

Yes, this is what I am thinking at this time.

It is a simple way to get started. As demand increases and skills increase you can look towards more advanced usage. For example it would be fairly simply to expand CNC usage to three sides via the use of fourth axis. A fourth axis is more hardware that the CNC system needs to support and it requires another learning curve.

It a one man operation on the drilling.

That may be the case today. If things really ramp up it might not be true in the future at which point a machine that meets OSHA requirements might make more sense.

Thanks for the sugestion on the dry lube I will definitely use it.

Dry lube? I was thinking more flood coolant. This is another reason to prefer a machine with a more complete enclosure.

Just for my interest, if you all would sugest a machine for simply drilling holes in the top of my enclosures which one would it be?

Thanks,

Randy

That is a lot harder to answer than you might think. I'm going to assume these are all aluminum boxes. Further the size of the box does make a difference.

A little mill like a TAIG might handle 200 or so a month and is certainly a good place to learn a bit but I wouldn't look at it as a long term investment. Mainly because of the inability to build fixtures in the future that would allow for setting up multiple boxes at once for machining. That and the reality a more traditional machines with heavier construction and a spindle taper that supports quick changes of tooling will be very desirable in the long run in a production environment.

Note that is said long run. Given that your smallest holes aren't to small you should be able to run cycles to mill out your holes instead of drilling them. So you may get away with no tool changes initially. If these are indeed aluminum products look for milling machines with spindle that lean towards the higher speed units. You would likely have trouble justifying a high end machine but you should be looking at the machinery Tormach sells. The mill these guys, Web, sell may be a better fit for your needs and business.

You could go to an even lower class machine, which might be useful for fixed usage but I might suggest that a more versatile machine would allow for wider usage as your business expands. This is the key really, do you want a machine for this specific task or do you want a machine that will allow more general CNC work or prototyping for your business. This would be an example of a more limited machine, Milling Machine CNC - LittleMachineShop.com

You should realize that most of these cheaper machines are not exactly machines designed for heavy production, but you are far from that category manufacture. Also this market is expanding rather fast as new ready to run CNC machines, for low end work, are hitting the market at regular intervals. So when you are ready to go you need to look at what is available at that time.

You might note that we haven't even mentioned used CNC machines. However such machines are a good way to get a lot of capacity at a good discount. Finding the bargain is always a challenge. Also most of these sorts of machines are 3 phase.

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In any event you can find plenty of examples of guys that purchased to little in the way of a machine for their startup and have found themselves upgrading relatively soon afterward. As such it may pay to get some experience and processes education under your belt first. Ideally a local school or college with have some CNC or related machining technologies courses for you to take. A bit of an expense but it would save you money in the long run. Alternatively you might look towards Toramch or one of the other companies for training courses. Your current tasks, drilling those holes is rather simple for a CNC machine but learning to use the technology can do much to enhance your operations.

[hoss2006]

It a one man operation on the drilling.

Thanks for the sugestion on the dry lube I will definitely use it.

Just for my interest, if you all would sugest a machine for simply drilling holes in the top of my enclosures which one would it be?

Thanks,

Randy

Good choice, the dry lube should work well, flood coolant is totally impractical, unnecessary and messy for your situation of drilling holes in thin metal boxes.
They sell it in cans too that you could dip a brush into and clean the chips off the bit.
Are you talking about a cnc machine? I thought we've already been through this.
If that's what you're asking then the Deepgroove taig would be your best bang for the buck but you wouldn't use it for drilling but for milling out the holes with a small endmill as has been mentioned before.
http://deepgroove1.com/cncmill.htm
Hoss

[wizard]

Good choice, the dry lube should work well, flood coolant is totally impractical, unnecessary and messy for your situation of drilling holes in thin metal boxes.
They sell it in cans too that you could dip a brush into and clean the chips off the bit.
Are you talking about a cnc machine? I thought we've already been through this.
If that's what you're asking then the Deepgroove taig would be your best bang for the buck but you wouldn't use it for drilling but for milling out the holes with a small endmill as has been mentioned before.
Cnc milling machine
Hoss

The Taig is certainly a nice machine for doing one or two units per setup. It don't see that as the issue though. The problem as I see it, this is my perspective, is that once you have a CNC machine in a small shop like this, you will want to use it more and more. That is everything from fixtures to product customization becomes a possibility. If the owner of this business is so inclined, I would look at the Taig as a machine that is simply a little small.

On the other hand if having the mill sit there setup for one operation doesn't bother the owner, then the Taig would likely hold up well for a few years. At current production rates that might mean the mill sits there idle for 90% of the time. I could see the Taig easily doing a 60 - 100 parts in an afternoon so at 2000 a year that could be a lot of idle time (this assuming 4 or so minutes between operator hitting start which is probably a long time). Of course a large more expensive mill would be just as idle. So it really comes down to how one expects to use the mill.

In that regard I wouldn't even bother with a CNC mill to drill a few holes at this production rate if I couldn't also leverage that mill for other uses. Again that is me, I know it isn't uncommon to see machinery bought, setup and only used for one process for its lifespan. For a small operation I just have a hard time with the whole idea of that.

One other thing that I wonder about is how much the various products vary in size. This might impact jigs and fixtures in design and the number required.

[hoss2006]

You don't have to agree with my suggestion but it's funny you nitpick it even though the taig has more travels, therefore more room for jigs ans fixtures than the LMS model you suggested.
At less than half the cost too he could buy 2 of them, one for production and one for prototyping.
Hoss

[wizard]

You don't have to agree with my suggestion but it's funny you nitpick it even though the taig has more travels, therefore more room for jigs ans fixtures than the LMS model you suggested.

I wouldn't exactly call it nitpicking but I will admit to being slightly biased towards the LMS machine for the low cost and limited solution. Mainly because I still think in terms of flood coolant and even that little tray that ships with the machine is better than nothing. Yes you could run a dry process to do the job but my mind is wired up for wet coolants. Hell my first choice when drilling something at home on a drill press is some sort of wet coolant/lube. On top of that I've seen a this mill actually running so I have confidence in its design. The Taig I can only judge by reputation, even if that reputation is good that is all I have to go on.

At less than half the cost too he could buy 2 of them, one for production and one for prototyping.
Hoss

Well the Taig might do the job for simple production but if he wants to come up with really different designs I still see the larger mills as more valuable in the long run. The small Tormach for example would allow carving new designs out of a block of aluminum rather quickly.

In the end I'm not sure if he has goals beyond "drilling" those holes. Even if he focuses just on drilling holes the system should be sound enough to handle the production ramp for the next 5 years. It is actually hard to suggest the ideal machine for this sort of operation because you have your own ideas about how you would proceed which may not jive with the guy that is running the business. My approach would be to go with the larger machines that allow me to leverage the machine in multiple ways within the business and that can be further enhanced as the business grows.

The obvious thing to look into is a fourth axis that would allow three sided machining of the housings in one setup. That however adds a significant expense so it isn't something to jump into right away. It really comes down to what the owner expects to be doing in five years. The volume isn't there to throw a lot of money at a CNC machine today. There is nothing wrong with that but I'd rather see a mill that can be updated to take on more capability as his skills and product shipments demand.

[hoss2006]

I'm not one to talk up the taig but the lms machine you suggested is not one i'd pick for ramping up production, it's basically only an x2 with barely over 4 inches of y travel. I have experience with x2's. I've read lots of posts over the years here and the taigs are definitely used for production, not my kind of production but exactly for the type of parts he's making. He's said nothing about wanting to dive into machining engine blocks so I keep my suggestions on the practical side for a guy who is simply looking at better ways to drill holes. I'm glad to see he's liked some of my suggestions so I'll leave with that, I have a shop to rebuild. Have a good one.
Hoss

[Mr. G]

Taig MASSIVELY greater than any X2 Based machine. It is more rigid, smoothe as silk, and has more travel. Not to mention the quality is not even comparable.

[wizard]

I'm not one to talk up the taig but the lms machine you suggested is not one i'd pick for ramping up production, it's basically only an x2 with barely over 4 inches of y travel.

It really isn't an X2. It has a well done column and the head stock is designed specifically for this mill. It also comes with ball screws. In any event unless I have my model numbers crossed it does do an impressive job for a machine that size.

This does bring up a question, I have no idea what the physical size is of these pedals. Obviously 4" of travel could be an issue if they are bigger than I imagine.

I have experience with x2's. I've read lots of posts over the years here and the taigs are definitely used for production, not my kind of production but exactly for the type of parts he's making.

I have no doubt the Taig could do this job. It doesn't however fit in with the way I'd approach the problem. By the way I look at the LMS machine as a minimal solution which is why I mentioned the Tormach repeatedly.

He's said nothing about wanting to dive into machining engine blocks so I keep my suggestions on the practical side for a guy who is simply looking at better ways to drill holes. I'm glad to see he's liked some of my suggestions so I'll leave with that, I have a shop to rebuild. Have a good one.

I'm still of the opinion that drilling holes at this demand level probably isn't a good reason to even buy a CNC machine. Getting interested in CNC is certainly the right move and getting a machine to improve overall operations is likely a good idea. But punching holes in aluminum with a drill press is pretty light work and with the right fixtures it would take a lot of product to justify any CNC machine.

Hoss

I see our free time is going in similar directions, that is I'm trying to turn part of the cellar into more of a shop.

[pecorporation]

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