[Smertrios]

Fadec UMC10 CNC Milling Center | eBay

The computer monitor and z travel of only 8.5 inches helps put its size into perspective. Just thought others might like a look at what I saw on eBay.

[Smertrios]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISzkthutKnA]Scratch Built mini version of Fadal's VMC 15 - YouTube[/ame]

Video putting its capabilities into perspective. I sucked air (mentally) when I saw the fly cutter =)

[fizzissist]

Bought a 4020 almost 10 years ago... Great machine!

It'll be interesting to see if these take off.

[691175002]

It looks like a great mill, but for perspective a haas tm-1 is 29K:
Haas TM-1 | Haas Automation, Inc. | CNC Machine Tools

[fizzissist]

It looks like a great mill, but for perspective a haas tm-1 is 29K:
Haas TM-1 | Haas Automation, Inc. | CNC Machine Tools

Pound for pound, the Haas is a better deal, but it's also a much bigger machine, and the 40 taper means more expensive tooling, and Haas is an all extras are extras company.

Given the size and capability, the Fadal offspring isn't a bad idea.. even if the tool change will put you to sleep.

[wizard]

Fadec UMC10 CNC Milling Center | eBay

The computer monitor and z travel of only 8.5 inches helps put its size into perspective. Just thought others might like a look at what I saw on eBay.

Thanks for the post, unfortunately it is out of my personal price range. I worry a bit about that Z travel but I'm not sure how that is measured.

If Dave could get a bit more exposure I'm certain he could sell more than a few of these machines. It is a nice little machine that could serve small job shops well.

[Smertrios]

Here is a machine with a similar price but with a BT30 spindle and 220 3-phase power.

Bolton Tools 3 Axis CNC Milling Machine Mill Drill with 10 Position Tool Changer | eBay

[aarongough]

I personally think there's a market for really small machines, in terms of footprint, weight and power requirements.

My main evidence for that thought is that personally I am limited on all 3 fronts and yet I still have a concrete use for a small CNC mill.

If I could get a machine with a work area of 12x6x3 that was sturdy, had an ATC and could cut steel all day I would do it. Then I would spend my weekends and evenings CNC machining custom knives and probably pay for the machine in less than a year.

Something like the UMC10 is definitely more likely to find it's way into my shop than a full-size VMC, or even the other 'mini' VMCs!

[TiagoSantos]

If there was an abundance of such machines and they were as cheap as we would all like them to be, then "everyone" would be making knives and you might have a hard time paying for the machine anyway

[aarongough]

If there was an abundance of such machines and they were as cheap as we would all like them to be, then "everyone" would be making knives and you might have a hard time paying for the machine anyway

And the world would be a better place for it!

[Smertrios]

It looks like a great mill, but for perspective a haas tm-1 is 29K:
Haas TM-1 | Haas Automation, Inc. | CNC Machine Tools

The TM-1P has a 10 tool carousel and is $36,000 (61% more $$$) I dont think the TM-1 has a tool changer.

[wizard]

If there was an abundance of such machines and they were as cheap as we would all like them to be, then "everyone" would be making knives and you might have a hard time paying for the machine anyway

I work in a very large plant and frankly you don't have a thing to worry about. Stupid out weighs capable by at least a 100 to 1!

[underthetire]

How the hell do you use a ATC with R8 collets. And the spindle has drive dogs. Somthin fishy there. Other than that, not a bad deal. Hass tm1 is over 30k with a toolchanger now. He made fadal work, so don't see why it won't take off.

[DareBee]

IMO Spindle taper is the number one area of stupidity in ALL the small CNC (Fadec, Tormach, Novakon, Syil, ETC).
To use a VMC as a money maker you need to be able to install preset length tools at very minimum and should be viable for an ATC.
R8 is absolutely NOT suirable (Dont start a "what about the TTS system" argument here - this is crap in the real world).
There is no reason why all this machines couldnt come with a BT30 for very much the same money.

[TechGuy5002]

IMO Spindle taper is the number one area of stupidity in ALL the small CNC (Fadec, Tormach, Novakon, Syil, ETC).
To use a VMC as a money maker you need to be able to install preset length tools at very minimum and should be viable for an ATC.
R8 is absolutely NOT suirable (Dont start a "what about the TTS system" argument here - this is crap in the real world).
There is no reason why all this machines couldnt come with a BT30 for very much the same money.

FYI: Tormach offers BT30 spindles as an option:
PCNC 1100 CNC Milling Machine Specifications
BT30 Spindle Cartridge | Tormach LLC providers of personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items.

Although I don't know if the BT30 spindle will work with thier ATC.

[TechGuy5002]

How the hell do you use a ATC with R8 collets. And the spindle has drive dogs. Somthin fishy there. Other than that, not a bad deal. Hass tm1 is over 30k with a toolchanger now. He made fadal work, so don't see why it won't take off.

I believe either its a modifed R8 spindle to work with retention knobs, or its uses an R8 pneumatic drawbar.

[aarongough]

IMO Spindle taper is the number one area of stupidity in ALL the small CNC (Fadec, Tormach, Novakon, Syil, ETC).
To use a VMC as a money maker you need to be able to install preset length tools at very minimum and should be viable for an ATC.
R8 is absolutely NOT suirable (Dont start a "what about the TTS system" argument here - this is crap in the real world).
There is no reason why all this machines couldnt come with a BT30 for very much the same money.

I'm not trying to start a flame war asking this, I'm interested in machine design and that means I like hearing feedback from people about why a certain thing does or doesn't work.

How come you don't like the TTS system?

[DareBee]

Accumulated error in both concentricity and tool harmonics is number 1 issue.
Limited holding power of the R8 design
Extended gauge length also affects rigidity.
With a CAT 40 you can get an ER collet or a heat shrink holder that has gauge length of .5" - the ultimate in accuracy and rigidity

The TTS is a band-aid solution instead of addressing the root of the issue

[underthetire]

I believe either its a modifed R8 spindle to work with retention knobs, or its uses an R8 pneumatic drawbar.

No way. i think who ever wrote the listing is wrong. look at the hole size in the spindle, and the ATC pockets. I'm betting its a CT30. Would be WAAAY more work to modify a R8 than to simply install a CT spindle.

[wwendorf]

He states in the video that it is a custom tool holder with a retention knob.

I would have jumped at a machine like that if it had more Z height. 8.5" is not enough. I am lucky to get by with the 14" on my 770.

Wade