[Donny M. Carter]

Just a note to say that I haven't abandoned the Monster Project, I have been busy making parts to mount three 2.2Kw water cooled VFD spindles on two different CNC machine! I cant post pictures because the company wishes to remain anonymous to protect their products, processes & the machines they use!! This big project will help me recover some of the expenses incurred during the Monster's creation! As soon as I'm able, I will start running the Monster and post more images!
Widgit

Like we're not really curious now! Thanks for the update. I was starting to have withdrawals!

[widgitmaster]

This morning I took a break from cutting metal, and decided to test the Monster's coolant system output!
So I disconnected the return line, and timed how long it took for one gallon to go through the spindle and return to the tank!
I was surprised to see it took 2:54 minutes, so that's 20-gallons per hour! Wow The 4mm hole inside the spindle is what's slowing it down!

Now the pump is rated at 5-gal/minute at 10-feet lift!

Widgit

[CarveOne]

It only needs enough flow to keep the spindle running within temperature limits. Being able to drain the lake behind Hoover Dam through the spindle in under 5 minutes won't improve anything will it? (you might need a fish filter in the line)

[widgitmaster]

It only needs enough flow to keep the spindle running within temperature limits. Being able to drain the lake behind Hoover Dam through the spindle in under 5 minutes won't improve anything will it? (you might need a fish filter in the line)

Hi Carv'e!
Actually, the three-spindle routers I'm currently working on will need sufficient coolant, and I suggested they use the same pump!
But I don't think the fish will mind!
Widgit

[CarveOne]

Hi Carv'e!
Actually, the three-spindle routers I'm currently working on will need sufficient coolant, and I suggested they use the same pump!
But I don't think the fish will mind!
Widgit

You know I was just teasing.

I suppose the manufacturer thinks the 4mm hole allows enough flow rate, but I've read of people opening up that hole or modifying it with a larger fitting. I wondered if there is a small refrigeration unit made for cooling the water that's in the tank and looked it up. A solid state Peltier cooler comes to mind. Google "12vdc drink cooler" and you'll find a bunch of them from single can USB port powered gadgets to larger and more expensive ones for RV and picnic uses. They might also be able to run from a battery charger plugged into a wall outlet. The idea is that colder water doesn't need high flow rates.

What do you think?

[keebler303]

If the spindle itself is the restriction, you should plumb multiple spindles in parallel and they will all get the same flow. Water is pretty good at removing heat so you don't need too much...

[Dylwad]

You know I was just teasing.

I suppose the manufacturer thinks the 4mm hole allows enough flow rate, but I've read of people opening up that hole or modifying it with a larger fitting. I wondered if there is a small refrigeration unit made for cooling the water that's in the tank and looked it up. A solid state Peltier cooler comes to mind. Google "12vdc drink cooler" and you'll find a bunch of them from single can USB port powered gadgets to larger and more expensive ones for RV and picnic uses. They might also be able to run from a battery charger plugged into a wall outlet. The idea is that colder water doesn't need high flow rates.

What do you think?

A 2.2 kw spindle needs a cooling system to deal with around 200 Watts of waste heat as far as I can remember, which is about the same amount as a decent CPU on todays PC's.

My little used pump and radiator from a powermac G5 has been doing the trick nicely for years, total water capacity is around a gallon. 3/8" hose on everything (lab grade tygon from mcmaster) reduced down near the spindle to fit in the stock connectors. I made sure there is nothing but plastic and aluminum in the whole system, besides the spindle itself.

It doesn't take much to deal with a few hundred Watts of heat. I leave the pump running 24/7 since it can have problems starting back up sometimes, and was not super fun to prime the first time.

[dodger889]

Do not forget to use some sorta corrosion inhibitor in the cooling system to prevent aluminum from breaking down from electrolysis.. There is a product from automotive called WaterWetter that improves cooling with water. Might be something to look in to for the cooling system on the spindles.

[Dylwad]

I run 50:50 distilled water and kid/pet safe antifreeze. It's still as bright green as the day I installed the spindle

[CarveOne]

A 2.2 kw spindle needs a cooling system to deal with around 200 Watts of waste heat as far as I can remember, which is about the same amount as a decent CPU on todays PC's.

My little used pump and radiator from a powermac G5 has been doing the trick nicely for years, total water capacity is around a gallon. 3/8" hose on everything (lab grade tygon from mcmaster) reduced down near the spindle to fit in the stock connectors. I made sure there is nothing but plastic and aluminum in the whole system, besides the spindle itself.

It doesn't take much to deal with a few hundred Watts of heat. I leave the pump running 24/7 since it can have problems starting back up sometimes, and was not super fun to prime the first time.

The heat pulled off the spindle has to go somewhere to be dissipated or the water continues to get warmer unless there is a means to remove the heat from the water in the system. That's why I was thinking about a simple way to cool the water.in the tank. A stainless steel tank with cooling fins or running the water through a scrap section of 8020 extrusion, or a coil of aluminum tubing might work well enough also.

I don't have a spindle yet. The noise from my routers is less than the noise from the G0548Z 2 hp single phase dust collector overshadows the other noises, so I wouldn't buy a spindle just for the lower noise level. For the lower rpm I would.

[Dylwad]

The heat pulled off the spindle has to go somewhere to be dissipated or the water continues to get warmer unless there is a means to remove the heat from the water in the system. That's why I was thinking about a simple way to cool the water.in the tank. A stainless steel tank with cooling fins or running the water through a scrap section of 8020 extrusion, or a coil of aluminum tubing might work well enough also.

I don't have a spindle yet. The noise from my routers is less than the noise from the G0548Z 2 hp single phase dust collector overshadows the other noises, so I wouldn't buy a spindle just for the lower noise level. For the lower rpm I would.

I placed the dust collector outside of the shop and plumbed 4" ducting through the wall, it's nice and quiet depending on what I'm cutting. Big plus is not having fine dust particles floating around in the shop anymore.

I think a simple, small radiator is plenty to keep the spindle cool, or a resivior made from stainless or aluminum with a decent water capacity and surface area. Remember CPU's in non water cooled computers just have a smallish heatsink and fan, and tend to work fine even when coated in dust and grime.

Not pretty, but it works. I'll make an enclosure for it one of these days. Attachment 233190

[widgitmaster]

This morning I started the new thread for the Multi-Spindle CNC router project!

[CarveOne]

I placed the dust collector outside of the shop and plumbed 4" ducting through the wall, it's nice and quiet depending on what I'm cutting. Big plus is not having fine dust particles floating around in the shop anymore.

I think a simple, small radiator is plenty to keep the spindle cool, or a resivior made from stainless or aluminum with a decent water capacity and surface area. Remember CPU's in non water cooled computers just have a smallish heatsink and fan, and tend to work fine even when coated in dust and grime.

Not pretty, but it works. I'll make an enclosure for it one of these days. Attachment 233190

I forgot that small radiators are available. My dust collector could be plumbed outside also. It's on my to-do list at low priority right now.

[Dylwad]

I forgot that small radiators are available. My dust collector could be plumbed outside also. It's on my to-do list at low priority right now.

Lots to choose from
CPU Liquid Cooling System | MPJA.COM
petrastechshop.com

[widgitmaster]

For over two weeks I have been trying to get this machine to function, but according to a good friend, the PMDX-107 spindle control board was bad. It has a constant 10-VDC across the Agnd & Aref terminals. They should be 0v at start up, 10v after pressing test button, and 5v after pressing test button a 2nd time. This causes Mach3 to be unable to set RPM via the "S" command. So I remove it an returned it to PMDX-107, and purchased a new one as well! The new board arrived yesterday, and when I installed it, it did not work properly either! So I'm now convinced the PMDX-126 Breakout Board may be damaged as well! So tonight I'll remove them and ship them back to PMDX! Oh Man, when the spindle over heated and killed the Inverter, it killed everything connected to it!
At this point I'm very tired, and very broke! I really hope this machine wakes up soon

Oh yea, please don't post any more about PC cooling systems, as its so off-topic!

[groc426]

I'm in the process of planning my controller and just wanted to say thank you for going into so much detail with everything, as well as posting your wiring diagram. I've gained so much from this build and will incorporate many things from your build (esp the spindle thermo control) when I start on my electronics. I'll reiterate what everyone else has said, you have an amazing machine! I hope PMDX takes care of you quickly and you can get cutting soon!

[widgitmaster]

I'm in the process of planning my controller and just wanted to say thank you for going into so much detail with everything, as well as posting your wiring diagram. I've gained so much from this build and will incorporate many things from your build (esp the spindle thermo control) when I start on my electronics. I'll reiterate what everyone else has said, you have an amazing machine! I hope PMDX takes care of you quickly and you can get cutting soon!

Thanks !
Widgit

[widgitmaster]

Today I spent a few hours running the Monster, and trying to get used to its massive size! There was a significant noise coming from the long Y-Axis pinion gears, telling me they were meshing too tightly! The problem is the stepper motor pivot plate's tension spring must be extremely tight to keep the little pinion gear engaged in the rack, as the 200+ pound gantry moving at 1000 IPM will easily jump a gear tooth when stopping in position! So this evening I studied the CAD file to look for a solution! As a rule, a gear is only supposed to make contact with one side of a gear tooth while moving, and contact the opposite side of the tooth when in revere motion! The clearance or end-play does not need to be any more than .0005", but running a pinion with 100% contact on both sides of the gear's tooth is not acceptable, and will wear it out prematurely.

The excessive pressure will wear out the bronze bearing in the pinion-pulley, the shoulder bolt acting as a single ended bearing shaft, along with the rack gear & pinion's teeth! The solution is to drill and tap a hole for a setscrew, which will act as a travel-stop for the swing plate. This way the 25-Lb compression spring's pressure will be against the set screw, not directly on the pinion teeth! The set screw can be fine-adjusted to give me the clearance in the gear teeth by placing a cellophane wrapper (.0005" thick shim) between the pinion & rack gears. The drilling & tapping of the steel parts should only take 20-minutes, the dismantling of the drive units on both sides of the Monster will take an hour or two! But the noise will be eliminated, and the drive mechanisms will last allot longer! There is plenty of room behind the long 3/8" bolt which goes through the spring, to drill & tap a hole for the 1/4-20 UNC setscrew & lock nut!

Progress!

[CNCMAN172]

Widget,
Wow you built it so tight you have no backlash and now you need to introduce some to address noise and wear. I have a couple of harmonic drives and they actual engage both sides of a tooth but in a designed fashion, but they are louder than normal gears meshing together. Their advantage is they have no backlash. You seem to have a good idea to address this issue. Good Luck
Russ

[widgitmaster]

So far so good Russ!
This morning I made the modifications to the Monster, and have the y-axis adjusted so there is no backlash and no pressure on the pinion! The entire router sounds so much better, and the swing-plates aren't bouncing over every rack-tooth!



Before I drilled & tapped the hole, I put a screw with a nut & wrench in the drill chuck to make sure I had room for the box wrench!
Widgit