[crob09]

You should be able to just wire the motor directly and bypass everything, then you'll know if it an electronic issue. I'd can the on board electronics and get a SuperPID.

Weird answer that makes no sense and solves nothing.....

I just want to add to my previous answer; the Variable Speed maybe part of the problem too, so maybe look at the Potentiometer, I've used worn out pots before and they can do some strange things; a Capacitor wired in with a flyback Diode, also still a good idea to make sure they're in place or to add them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_diode
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservoir_capacitor

[louieatienza]

Weird answer that makes no sense and solves nothing.....

I just want to add to my previous answer; the Variable Speed maybe part of the problem too, so maybe look at the Potentiometer, I've used worn out pots before and they can do some strange things; a Capacitor wired in with a flyback Diode, also still a good idea to make sure they're in place or to add them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_diode
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservoir_capacitor

What's so weird about it? The variable speed controls on most all these handheld routers suck when running under CNC control. You can fix everything on that Makita speed control and it would still suck. Unless you're taking the lightest of cuts, and then you're not cutting efficiently and not realizing the potential of your machine.

[crob09]

Pertaining to this comment:

"You should be able to just wire the motor directly and bypass everything, then you'll know if it an electronic issue. I'd can the on board electronics and get a SuperPID."

That wasn't/ isn't a solution. What are you saying?...your machine isn't working so buy a new one?
Tell me why a "handheld router sucks when running under cnc control"? That makes no sense at all, what the heck do you think is being controlled via CNC when it comes to the Spindle?
"Wire it directly" in what sense? Think about things.
The software will turn on or off the spindle, and f the Software is used to adjust speed it does it threw PWM, as I stated and you quoted the Diode will fix the problem, please spend time to read the links I provided.
I highly suggest no one run out and buy new equipment, your CNC isn't really "Controlling" your spindle, it turns it on or off, the Power Supply drives it, Noise, frequency changes, will cause fluctuation.
The Flyback Diode will protect the electronics driving the Spindle.

[louieatienza]

Pertaining to this comment:

"You should be able to just wire the motor directly and bypass everything, then you'll know if it an electronic issue. I'd can the on board electronics and get a SuperPID."

That wasn't/ isn't a solution. What are you saying?...your machine isn't working so buy a new one?
Tell me why a "handheld router sucks when running under cnc control"? That makes no sense at all, what the heck do you think is being controlled via CNC when it comes to the Spindle?
"Wire it directly" in what sense? Think about things.
The software will turn on or off the spindle, and f the Software is used to adjust speed it does it threw PWM, as I stated and you quoted the Diode will fix the problem, please spend time to read the links I provided.
I highly suggest no one run out and buy new equipment, your CNC isn't really "Controlling" your spindle, it turns it on or off, the Power Supply drives it, Noise, frequency changes, will cause fluctuation.
The Flyback Diode will protect the electronics driving the Spindle.

You're being a bit obtuse.. the speed control on most all handheld routers cannot keep up with loads put upon it under CNC control. For handheld uae, sure. Most CNCs here generate more force than most normal humans. And the loads on the spindle fluctuate greatly. Cut quality suffers.

Not saying you couldn't just use a stock router. But there are inherent deficiencies in it, akin to racing a Ferrari with a Yugoslavia transmission, having the transmission blow, then just repairing the transmission.

[crob09]

What does that have to do with anything? It's not a solution and has nothing to do with the problem.

How is the CNC Controlling the Spindle? The fact the machine is moving a spindle over a bed doesn't make the "Spindle" cnc controlled.
Force applied... It's variable speed and the machine speed can be adjusted too, you want variable speed so different materials can be cut with different sized cutting tools, a large cutting tool requires a lower speed.
Now a CNC is constant where a person isn't!
Also the problem is with the motor changing RPM while operating (running) probably with no load.
Stop trolling, it just makes you look ignorant.
If you want to help actually suggest something good.

[louieatienza]

What does that have to do with anything? It's not a solution and has nothing to do with the problem.

How is the CNC Controlling the Spindle? The fact the machine is moving a spindle over a bed doesn't make the "Spindle" cnc controlled.
Force applied... It's variable speed and the machine speed can be adjusted too, you want variable speed so different materials can be cut with different sized cutting tools, a large cutting tool requires a lower speed.
Now a CNC is constant where a person isn't!
Also the problem is with the motor changing RPM while operating (running) probably with no load.
Stop trolling, it just makes you look ignorant.
If you want to help actually suggest something good.

You cannot push a router spindle at the feedrates a CNC can, and hold it as steady as a CNC. The variable speed controls on these handheld routers (which are NOT intended to be bolted onto CNCs by the way) CANNOT give you consistent spindle speeds, and you'd find when cutting material of varying densities (like wood) or even the occasional work in something denser (like Corian or even aluminum) that these router speed controls cannot keep up and deliver. You'd see fluctuations in speed as the tool enters and exits the workpiece, as the tool approaches a corner, etc.

I do suggest something good, a SuperPID, which keeps the router within a couple hundred RPMs of what you set it to (whether by CNC control or manually) regardless of the spindle load. This is a lot closer to what industrial spindles do, at a fraction of the price. You can fix that Makita speed control all you want, it will still bog down under load.

But what do I know? I'm a troll who just happens to be a Gold member here with over 4300 posts, and who actually does contribute to the forum (check the stickied thread at the top of this forum)... help quite a few here in terms of cutting aluminum, speeds and feeds, brought single-edge spiral-"O"-flute endmills to the masses, and yes... I find a SuperPID to be an invaluable yet inexpensive investment and good alternative to a spindle/VFD combo, and eons in improvement over the built in speed controller of most all routers (except maybe Festool, but who would mount a Festool to their CNC?)

And I don't shamelessly put links to my website in my signature in a way to circumvent paying for advertisement.

[crob09]

You cannot push a router spindle at the feedrates a CNC can, and hold it as steady as a CNC. The variable speed controls on these handheld routers (which are NOT intended to be bolted onto CNCs by the way) CANNOT give you consistent spindle speeds, and you'd find when cutting material of varying densities (like wood) or even the occasional work in something denser (like Corian or even aluminum) that these router speed controls cannot keep up and deliver. You'd see fluctuations in speed as the tool enters and exits the workpiece, as the tool approaches a corner, etc.

I do suggest something good, a SuperPID, which keeps the router within a couple hundred RPMs of what you set it to (whether by CNC control or manually) regardless of the spindle load. This is a lot closer to what industrial spindles do, at a fraction of the price. You can fix that Makita speed control all you want, it will still bog down under load.

But what do I know? I'm a troll who just happens to be a Gold member here with over 4300 posts, and who actually does contribute to the forum (check the stickied thread at the top of this forum)... help quite a few here in terms of cutting aluminum, speeds and feeds, brought single-edge spiral-"O"-flute endmills to the masses, and yes... I find a SuperPID to be an invaluable yet inexpensive investment and good alternative to a spindle/VFD combo, and eons in improvement over the built in speed controller of most all routers (except maybe Festool, but who would mount a Festool to their CNC?)

And I don't shamelessly put links to my website in my signature in a way to circumvent paying for advertisement.

Changing the control software will not fix anything, a simple Capacitor will.
Yes just like a car, or boat, if you have a load on the spindle motor the rpm will change because of load, ALL spindles will do that, no matter of the make or control.
The Feed rate is something you have to set, if you feed anything too fast you will have problems.
Anyway I'm sure anyone can just follow your suggestions and have no problems finding a solution... Your answer by the way, this is what I'm getting so far... The Router shouldn't be used but it can be used with a different controller because the Router is CNC driven and can't handle CNC feed, am I getting this?
Makes no sense...
How is it shameless to provide a link to a website that exploits nothing?
Did you visit my website? If so what's wrong with it?
I bet you think I'm promoting Wikipedia too right, because I gave you two links to look at?
How is it Shameless to have it as a signature so people can reference or research the one answering a question. I didn't give a wrong answer and only pointed out that your comments made no sense, you are still to explain what you meant by "wire it directly" or how another controller will change anything.
Again I ask... How do you think that Spindle is Controlled?
You give it power, that's it! A Variable resistor changes the RPM, and so can PWM. That's it!
How do you fix a fuel problem (Power problem)?
Capacitor!!
Now if you think my answer is wrong explain why, and propose a solution, don't be a troll!
You have over 4000 posts because you're a troll and you post garbage answers to get people like me posting to stupid comments. I'm really done with now, so say whatever you want, maybe you can talk someone into spending time and money on something that won't help, or will help but is expensive and complicated.
Good luck to anyone who follows your suggestion(s) within this thread.

[rbraeking]

I burned up several routers using them for CNC spindles. I even set one on fire. They are made for intermittent use, not to run constantly for hours on end. Save your nickels and get a proper spindle/VFD setup. The most economical are the chinese water cooled variety which are available on several websites. They are much quieter, more powerful, and dependable. Also you can vary the speed directly from the Mach3 run screen. You can start/stop from Mach3 - in either direction depending on your card. A 3.3KW spindle will be much more powerful than your router. With ER chucks you have more than just 2 choices on tool diameter as well.
Bob

[crob09]

I burned up several routers using them for CNC spindles. I even set one on fire. They are made for intermittent use, not to run constantly for hours on end. Save your nickels and get a proper spindle/VFD setup. The most economical are the chinese water cooled variety which are available on several websites. They are much quieter, more powerful, and dependable. Also you can vary the speed directly from the Mach3 run screen. You can start/stop from Mach3 - in either direction depending on your card. A 3.3KW spindle will be much more powerful than your router. With ER chucks you have more than just 2 choices on tool diameter as well.
Bob

I could see something like what you described transpiring, however if the VFD is used by means of PWM (Mach Control as you describe) even a brushed motor will stay operating at a nice temperature. believe it or not I added PWM to an Unimat-3 Metal Lathe, they use brushed universal motors that without the VFD got really hot after a few minuets of operation, the PWM helps big time with heat and now I can run the Lathe for a very very long time before the motor even gets warm.
So Yes VFD is the way to go.
I see lots of CNC Routers that actually use Routers as a Spindle, much less money than the 3.3kW Spindle and doesn't require water cooling.
A simple fix.... Wire a Capacitor in line, maybe consider investing in a PWM board, one thing to check for.... The Router needs to be a DC or Universal motor if the PWM uses MOSFETs, if it's DC the PWM circuit will need TRAIC's.
You can make a PWM circuit yourself too, and yes, it can be controlled via Mach3 (change speed etc).
I'm a save money kind of person, I'll do my best to overcome a hurdle using the equipment at hand, if I can't then I spend money. But remember there are always at least two angles of approach for any problem.
So recap: If the Router under no load is running high then low again (RPM fluctuates) then you need to smooth out the supply, this can be done using a Capacitor What is a Smoothing Capacitor?
Also to protect your equipment I suggest installing a Throwback diode.
Look at the Potentiometer that's on the Router, make sure it's supplying a constant load (This is your VFD, just mechanical).
Add PWM if the Router gets too warm during operation, heat could have influenced the Potentiometer.
If you have the money and time order a water cooled spindle, the water cooler, PWM\ VFD Drive, and power supply to solve your problem.

[rbraeking]

The main advantages of a proper spindle are:
1. Less Noise - This is a biggie.
2. Flexibility on tool size - not limited to 1/4 and 1/2
3. No exposed brushes to ignite dust fire.
4. Negligible TIR (total indicated runout)(shaft wobble) and zero end play of shaft.

The pump/water bucket is the normal cooling system but I use CPU radiators and pumps borrowed from the gaming computer folks. I mount the radiators on top of the "hat" up out of the main dust area. This is a completely sealed system that does not need water changing. I run a 50/50 mix of car antifreeze and distilled water. I blow out the radiators between jobs when blowing off the residual dust on the spoilboard.

Bob

[Hag]

I had the exact same prpblem on my RD1101 Makita router. I dismantled the speed control and cleaned it up and blew out where the sensor was in proximity to the magnetic (suspected) rotating tab. This is how it knows how fast the rotor in turning. I suspect there was something interferring with the sensor picking up the pulses.
Anyway this cleanup solved the problem. In tne future I suspect I could just use compressed air to blow out the area near the switch/speed control without taking anything apart.
No new parts required.

[peteeng]

Hi Senor - I had a makita RT0700 on a cnc and thrashed it for 2 years before the brushes wore out. By the CAM clock I could see it had 700hrs on it, near the brushes end of life it did vary speed. Plus the finger dial speed controller got loose so I used masking tape to stop it from changing under the vibration. I have other Makita tools and I'm very impressed with them. I changed the brushes and it was all good again. It did stop at brush EOL. I put new brushes in and it was quieter and ran like new. I suggest you speak to your Makita person/rep and see what they say. I changed the Makita for a 48V 600W DC spindle and its very quite. Not as much grunt as the Makita but so far I prefer it as it has collets and less noise and can run slower when I need slow...Was about the same price as a makita and I sold the Makita easily for over half what I paid for it so happy with that...Regards Peter