[Jim Anderson]

Hey There,

Does anyone know of someone selling upgrade for the 1100 machine? For example, I know that there are a few companies offering stuff to hot rod Sherline CNCs, just wondering if the same is available for the Tormach 1100?

I have a upgraded the series 1 to a series 3 with Tormach kits and works without a hitch, but having 200 inches a minute of rapid would be great.

All The Best,
Jim
Anderson Prototypes

[BAMCNC.COM]

So are you only wanting to go faster then?

[Jim Anderson]

Well---of course I want accuracy and repeatability as well. Addition of glass scales could be an advantage.

I am open to hearing ideas.....

Thanks for the response,
Jim

[BAMCNC.COM]

You can go faster now, its just software in your way, email Tormach and ask how to go faster, you will void your warranty however.

[sansbury]

Well---of course I want accuracy and repeatability as well. Addition of glass scales could be an advantage.

What are you hoping to get out of glass scales? AFAICT, there's only a few things they would get you:

1. A good way to measure leadscrew pitch deviation to build a comp table. This could get you a thou here and there, but you could get some of this with an indicator and some 123 blocks, or at least an idea of how much a more intensive calibration would get you. My uneducated guess: not a ton.

2. Super-accurate DROs that work even after the machine has crashed. Yay, but who cares?

3. A basis for faulting out if you lose steps. This would take a lot of work and switching to EMC2 or some such that can count the encoders and compare to the intended stepper position.

What it would not get you is the same level of accuracy or smoothness of a servo system, which uses a totally different type of motor and drive. The key thing here is that if a servo system is commanded to move to X=1, and it's lagging behind (this is called "following error" usually) then the drive will attempt to catch up by increasing torque, etc. to reduce the following error. If the following error is greater than some set amount, the drive will fault and stop the machine.

With a stepper system, the motor is in essence always giving 100% of what it can. If the drive commands the motor to go to X, and there is following error, it's because the motor *is not capable* of making that move. E.g., you're asking it to do something that requires more torque than the motor is capable of at that speed. So the glass scales could tell you "Hey pal, the following error is getting big!" but they couldn't help you do anything except throw a fault and stop.

I have a suspicion that whenever some people with stepper systems get a part that doesn't match the print, the first or second thing they blame is lost steps. I'm not saying they're impossible, far from it, but I suspect they get blamed about 10-100 times as often as they actually happen. I've spent a lot of time around low-powered stepper systems, and in my experience, you're either losing steps like crazy (i.e. there's no mistaking it) or you're not losing them at all. I'd be looking at things like gib tightness, bearing preload, mill tram, and tool flex/runout issues if I needed another thou or two before I started even thinking about lost steps. This is assuming you're running feeds and speeds in the green zone load-wise. IIRC there are some discussions that depending on the tool you're using, you'll break the tool before the motors stall.

As for the value of 200IPM rapids, have you tried simulating them in CAM to see just how much you get for your trouble? Maybe you've got a part or process that relies on a lot of rapids, so who knows. You can figure out how much you would benefit. I'd just be a little surprised if it was really that much. And if it is, maybe you should consider a used VMC. You can get a good number of them for prices not far off from a Tormach, and you'll be cutting at over 200IPM, let alone rapids. As BAMCNC says there is some more you can get, but I'd look into the real benefit before spending too much effort or voiding a warranty on it.

[Jim Anderson]

I hear what you are saying....

For the size of work I do Tormach is a great answer to that. I enjoy the machine very much, but as CNC machinist for over 25 years, I have experience running all the major brands. Its more cost effective to have 2 or 3 Tormachs over one HAAS Mini-Mill. Granted the floor space is greater for the Mini-Mill as well, and then can only run one job at a time.

Like I said, I want to hot-rod the 1100. The warranty is up, and if it possible, inside a reasonable cost, then I would like to make it faster. A new machine being around $12,000, a 1/3 of that would not be out of the question. Bigger steppers, better drives, MACH 3 is infinitely tunable....just who is the person to talk to. there must be someone who is doing something like this somewhere....

Thanks for the feed back....
Jim

[Dylwad]

The steppers are nema 34, these come to mind as an upgrade http://www.automationtechnologiesinc...que-1128-oz-in not sure of the length difference compared to stock, but the electrical side of things should be fairly straightforward. I think they are made by the same manufacture as the stock series 3 motors and drives.

Just a thought, I have had my eye on the closed loop steppers for a while but nobody who is using them seems to post anything on here...

Sent from tapatalk

[Jim Anderson]

Thanks...I will look into that...

Cheers,
Jim

[Dylwad]

Thanks...I will look into that...

Cheers,
Jim

Might want to have a look at the series 3 documents on tormachs site, they do a pretty good job of defending their choices in motors, drives and max feedrates....

Sent from tapatalk

[rlockwood]

I hear what you are saying....

For the size of work I do Tormach is a great answer to that. I enjoy the machine very much, but as CNC machinist for over 25 years, I have experience running all the major brands. Its more cost effective to have 2 or 3 Tormachs over one HAAS Mini-Mill. Granted the floor space is greater for the Mini-Mill as well, and then can only run one job at a time.

Like I said, I want to hot-rod the 1100. The warranty is up, and if it possible, inside a reasonable cost, then I would like to make it faster. A new machine being around $12,000, a 1/3 of that would not be out of the question. Bigger steppers, better drives, MACH 3 is infinitely tunable....just who is the person to talk to. there must be someone who is doing something like this somewhere....

Thanks for the feed back....
Jim

If you're replacing the steppers and drives, i'd suggest switching to a servo system.

[BAMCNC.COM]

I agree with servos, that would be nice!

I think you can get close to 200ipm rapids with the stock system, if your careful. It's capable, but Tormach designed it the way it is for a reason, and that's reliability. Just like all safety equipment, it may say 2000lbs, but can take 4000lbs "safely"

[Dylwad]

I agree with servos, that would be nice!

I think you can get close to 200ipm rapids with the stock system, if your careful. It's capable, but Tormach designed it the way it is for a reason, and that's reliability. Just like all safety equipment, it may say 2000lbs, but can take 4000lbs "safely"

If you look at the series 3 upgrade white papers, axial force at 110 ipm is around 700lbs, 200 ipm is around 500 lbs, compare that to the series 2, 90 ipm at 575 lbs.

Huge safety margin if you ask me.

But they also mention mid band resonance kicks in around 140 ipm....

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[rhost]

If you're going to go with servos, you might as well go all the way and close the outer loop, either with LinuxCNC or a commercial controller. There are definitely quite a few upgrades that can be done, relocating the electronics cabinet, servo spindle for rigid tapping, full enclosure, better flood, wash down hose, telescoping way covers, modified power draw bar for the bt30 spindle, chip auger. The question is, is it worth the time and money.

[BAMCNC.COM]

If you look at the series 3 upgrade white papers, axial force at 110 ipm is around 700lbs, 200 ipm is around 500 lbs, compare that to the series 2, 90 ipm at 575 lbs.

Huge safety margin if you ask me.

But they also mention mid band resonance kicks in around 140 ipm....

Sent from tapatalk

On the way past 140 you won't notice anything...

[Jim Anderson]

Well some of the things you mentioned are not really what I am after with this machine. I would like a reliable upgrade to take the machine to 200 IPM of rapid (or close))...that I could then purchase another or several 1100 models and do the same too. Keeping the reliability, and accuracy.

The style of machining I do, is generally running as fast I as can cut with the spindle of 5100 RPMS now. I don't want to mess around with the spindle, but doubling the rapids would save a lot time. Even with a shallow acceleration curve, it would still be worth while.

Seems like a reasonable request......

Anybody interested in building this?

Jim

[BAMCNC.COM]

Spindle speed and acceleration will speed up your job more than rapids UNLESS you have an ATC like I do, then Z rapids are HUGE. PM me if you need any help achieving your idea.

[Jim Anderson]

Hey BAMCNC

Agreed that more RPM would be a great thing..I don't really want to mess around with that right now. My programs might run for a few hours, and RAPIDS are extremely important with the types of machining I do. Just doubling the current rate would be extremely helpful. Someone posted a link to some motors and drives, that I want to review.

I would listen to your spindle idea though.....also waiting for Tormach revised Spindle Speeder to come out, for my .030 cutter work.

Thanks for your input,
Jim

[BAMCNC.COM]

My solution is the answer to your issue. I'll PM you..

[quapman]

The speeder is out, but not cheap.


31350 - Tormach Speeder Series 2

[takewhatyoulike]

The speeder is out, but not cheap.


31350 - Tormach Speeder Series 2

How concentric is the Speeder Series 2 spindle with the host spindle?

Don Clement