[Zumba]

I need some advice as to which types of tooling I should get.

Vises - Kurt Anglock or Enco clone? The Enco is 1/3 the price.

Boring head - Criterion or Enco clone? The Enco is 1/4 the price.

Misc tooling - Parallels, 1-2-3 blocks, endmills, reamers etc - USA/Japanese brand or Enco? Again, the Enco stuff is about 1/4 the price.

How bad is the Asian tooling? I have mixed opinions on Asian products... my Jet vertical mill performs flawlessly, but my benchtop mill is pretty crappy. Should I suck it up and get the good stuff?

[lakeside]

put your money in a good vise and buy cheap Parallels, 1-2-3 blocks, ect a kurt vise will last long than you

[PROTOTRAKFAN]

Buy the Kurt vise the Criterion boring head. I am sick and tired of Chinese CRAP. Over the past 15 years I keep seeing more and more of it and it doesnt get any better. It is basically "hit or miss". There is one thing you can count on - Chinese tools are made of the worst steel found on Earth. It is ultimately up to you but, just keep in mind that "you get what you pay for"....
Patrick

[lakeside]

have you every seen a Parallels, 1-2-3 blocks ect with a mill or drill mark in it sometime cheap is good

[dertsap]

if you can spread it a bit more CHICK makes a beautiful vise ,you'll never have to worry bout the jaws lifting .

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

Zumba I have never had a bad experience with a Kurt vise. I've had many bad experiences with cheap tools be they Chineese, Indian or American. You get what you pay for or less, seldom more.
RZ

[Ken_Shea]

I am old enough and experienced enough to know better but I still get bit by the allure of those cheap prices of the Chinese imports. The cutters cut, the vises vise, the indicators indicate, the reamers ream, the drills really aren't all that bad nor the digital calipers, that being said, if you can stay away from them you will be better off. Forget the punches, screw drivers, vise grips, and any type of adjustable wrench, allan wrenches, screws, nuts and bolts.

In all fairness this is not about Chinese quality, the price ought to tell us enough, it is not fair to even compare, they have found a niche market and do well in it. Some of the cutters will get you by but that is about it.

[warpedmephisto]

When I first got into milling and general machine work I ordered a lot of import setup equipment and tooling just to get me started, because I couldn't get over the price difference. Before you read the rest of this keep in mind that I only do hobby grade type work and I don't need ultraprecise equipment as a production place, or just a nicer machine shop would.

That being said, I don't see any problems with the parallels, 1-2-3 blocks, some of the vises, calipers (dial and electronic), dial indicators, etc. - especially for the price difference. One thing that you have to be aware of is that you do pay for what you get and just be aware of what you're buying. Don't buy an import vise and expect a Kurt, etc. If there is something thats fairly critical or has a low margin of error for tolerance, spend the extra bucks and do the job right.

If you're just starting out, I suggest getting cheapo import cutters. That way you won't feel so bad when you wreck them into the vise. Yes, it will happen.

Now that I've graduated to a higher level of machining, I am starting to buy the US made cutters and other higher quality (read: US made) items. And yes, there is a difference in the way import and US made cutters cut.

[jed102]

Don't buy an import vise and expect a Kurt, etc.

I expected a Kurt and got an import. No offence to anyone here, because I know about the problems with imports. In fact I have remachined surfaces internal and external surfaces of a 4" import rotary table (everything was out of wack), remachined dovetails and installed new bearing supports on one of those cheap xy tables, because they where so far out of squareness and parallelness that you could see it by eye.

So when I went to buy a new milling machine vise, I decided to spend the big bucks. My Kurt D675 came in, and now I am faced with either sending it back (a real pain) or figuring out how I am going to get some serious side to side slop out of the movable jaw. Gently tighten a small part on one side of the jaws and there is at least .017 taper toward the other side (sort of like a drill press vise). My 20 year old no name vise does better, in that area at least. I can't seem to win!

Is their quality control going down hill in recent days? This is what I am trying to find out. It seems so far that the older Kurt D675 vises have about 1/4 the amount of side play. I hope kurt is not thinking that because import quality is so bad these days, no one will notice or complain if they loosen up their tolerances a bit, or if quality control is not quite up to par.

Frank