[Spinnetti]

So, I like the idea of an ATC, but can't justify the cost for my hobby use. I have a PDB, and looking at stuff on the web, it looks like I could make a simple holder that I bolt to the table, and could use the motion of the head itself as moves towards a tool to trigger a couple switches to activate the PDB. All that's left is some way to tell Mach where the tools are. Can anybody clue me into what's involved with that, or any reason why this wouldn't work for a simple tool changer (could use some die springs below the tool holder to make sure that the tool is fully engaged in the collet)? I'm just thinking it doesn't have to be as complicated as the "official" one.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

What you're describing is usually referred to as a "wine rack" toolchanger. If you Google that, you should find plenty of examples. The good news is they are cheap, and pretty easy to build. The bad news is they take up a lot of table space, and you have to put some kind of enclosure around it, or the tool shanks get fouled with chips and coolant, which will mess up both the tool length setting, and PDB retention. You'll also be very limited in the number of tools it can support, and the lengths/diameters of those tools. If you work mostly with smaller/shorter tools, neither of those should be a show-stopper. You'll almost certainly want the tools to slide laterally into "forks", similar to the ones on the Tormach ATC, rather than having them drop in vertically. Otherwise, you'll be SERIOUSLY limited in the tool/holder diameters you can support. That will consume more of the available work envelope.

It can be controlled pretty easily with some pretty simple Mach3 macros, but no telling how hard it would be to integrate into the Tormach Mach, if it can be done at all. You might end up having to use a Non-Tormach version of Mach3 to do it.

I believe Hoss built a wine-rack for this X2. If you dig up that thread in the Benchtop Machines forum, or go to his website (hossmachine.com, IIRC), you can probably use his design and macros as a starting point.

Regards,
Ray L.

[amyers]

I have hoss plans for his super sweet atc for the g0704 that is a carousel mounted on the table, Projects2 takes up minimal space and can go up to 10 tools, 16 if you go with a full rack as i recall. gotta get around to it someday. uses tts or similar tools.

[adamboon]

Spinnetti, I am also very interested in the 'wine rack' tool changer idea for the Tormach. I also have the PDB, but the problem I have run into, after doing some research, is getting MACH3 to talk to the PDB. As far as I can tell, you would need to add another parallel port or something to the Tormach controller and use the standard version of MACH3. Please keep this psot up-to-date with any findings and I am sure there are a lot of interested people that would like to know how to implement this on their Tormach.

[amyers]

found this video by hoss that addresses a lot of the negativity towards the winerack type mentioned before and ideas for different racks that use the slide in atc tts tools. the main point i got is that there is more z travel with mills bigger than an x2 so the rack can be built taller to avoid troubles with longer tools. also his atc's are at Hossmachine Homepage.

[Spinnetti]

Thanks.. seems like that would work well enough for my purpose 8-10 tools would be plenty. I could make a tool holder cover with a couple pins on the side of the head, so it would first move in sideways and the pins would engage the cover, then the head moves up exposing the tools, then move in for the change... No chips, no extra automation... I'd rather buy than build, but the mechanical part seems pretty easy. Now, how to do the code part?

[BAMCNC.COM]

I'm thinking about adding this along with the normal Tormach ATC, not for more tools, but for faster tool changes possibly. I would only make a 3 or 4 tool wine rack probably.

[sansbury]

I'm not super-familiar with Mach, but I think it has the ability to do macros? If so, what you need are probably two macros, one to drop off a tool, and one to pick up a tool. They would take a tool number as a parameter. You would need to define the locations of each slot in the macro so it knows where to go for each tool. To keep it simple I'd probably use absolute positioning mode so you don't need to worry about work offsets.

Alternatively, you could just have code snippets that you paste and replace by hand. Basically you'd have a snippet for dropping off a tool at a specified pocket and another snippet for picking up a tool at a specified pocket. 4 tools = 8 snippets. Not as elegant but certainly practical for a job that needs to get done in less time than it would take you to build better automation with Mach.

[amyers]

there is only one macro for the toolchanger in mach, i'm no expert like hoss but he makes it easy by providing one for his winerack atc here. Projects 7 from what i understand it controls everything including the power drawbar. search his youtube channel, he has lots of helpful videos hossmachine - YouTube

[Spinnetti]

"code snippets" would work fine wouldn't they? I hand edit my code anyway, so dropping that in is easy enough! Hmm....

[adamboon]

Spinnetti, how have you been making out with this project? Have you been able to get anywhere? I'm real interested to hear about your progress.

[Spinnetti]

Spinnetti, how have you been making out with this project? Have you been able to get anywhere? I'm real interested to hear about your progress.

At the moment too overloaded to do it. Race car popped the motor, daily driver stripped a bolt out of the turbo, and I'm trying to finish 4 sets of full scale model aircraft landing gear, so don't want to interrupt that to do it (hence the preference to buy rather than build)... With the ideas provided, its an academic exercise though.

[adamboon]

This new product from Tormach looks like it would be a great fit for this project. It looks like it would take a lot of the guess work out and keep the waranty.

Make Custom M-Codes with our USB IO Interface Module « Milling Around

Any thoughts from anyone?

[sansbury]

That looks like a good product especially for the Mach guys. If I wanted to do this on my mill with LinuxCNC I'd just use an Arduino and roll my own, but the price on that is pretty reasonable and less futzing required.

All that said, Greg Jackson has recently addressed the "warranty voiding" concern with unlocking Mach before and made it pretty clear that simply using an unlocked version of Mach will not cause spindles and steppers to explode and Tormach to refuse covering them. It's just a way for them to cover the fact that the farther a user goes from the standard, "known" configuration, the less ability they have to provide support, even when they want to. To this point when I bought my machine several months ago, told them I'd be running LinuxCNC on my own PC, and there's nothing said about that affecting the machine warranty.

[DLawrence]

I like the concept this guy is using. Sometimes just to change back and forth between two tools would save loads of time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIR3XWdIA7s

[Steve303]

I like that design. Anyone know how you would interface it with pathpilot?

I like the concept this guy is using. Sometimes just to change back and forth between two tools would save loads of time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIR3XWdIA7s

[footpetaljones]

A rack ATC could be made with an M6 macro. There's a thread on the LinuxCNC forum talking about it here: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanc...k-tool-changer

Here's a 5 minute hack job at what I think the macro would look like.

I am 100% certain this wouldn't work. I don't know LinuxCNC's parameters at all, I suck at writing macros, and I didn't check my directions at all. But maybe someone can take it an run with it.


;Single Rack ATC
;------------------------------


#101 == XXX ; Slow jog rate
#102 == XXX ; Fast jog rate
#103 == XXX ; Y spacing between tool pockets
;Tool pockets run in Y direction
;M100 = Clamp PDB
;M101 = Unclamp PDB


;------------------------------


IF #<_current_tool> == #<_selected_tool> THEN N1000 ; If current tool = selected tool, skip macro


M5 ; Turn off spindle
M9 ; Turn off coolant
G28 ; Go to tool change position
G90 G1 X2 Y#<_current_pocket> Z1 F#102 ; Go to current tool pocket X-1 at fast jog
G91 X1 F#101 ; Go to current tool pocket at slow jog
M101 ; Unclamp
G4 P1 ; Dwell 1 second
G91 Z F#102 ; Move Z+1 at fast jog
G90 G1 X2 Y#<_selected_pocket> Z2 F#102 ; Go to selected tool pocket Z+1 at fast jog
G91 G1 Z-1 F#101 ; Move down on selected tool at slow jog
M100 ; Clamp
G4 P1 ; Dwell 1 second
G91 X-1 F#101 ; Move out of selected pocket at slow jog
G91 Z1 F#102 ; Move up at fast jog
G28 ; Move to tool change position
N1000
;End

[footpetaljones]

If you want the rack to move out of the way, just hook up a 3 way 2 position solenoid to Tormach's USB I/O Board and add the M code and a dwell to the beginning and end of the macro.

[kstrauss]

Do M100/M101 actually actuate the PDB on a machine without an ATC or is the USB I/O board required?

[Steve303]

Thanks footpetaljones. I'll will spend some time learning more about this. I think we can now use up to 4 USB I/O boards with PathPilot 2.0 so that adds more flexibility.

If you want the rack to move out of the way, just hook up a 3 way 2 position solenoid to Tormach's USB I/O Board and add the M code and a dwell to the beginning and end of the macro.