[cdpaine]

Hi,

Looking to upgrade shop with a commercial cnc. Don't have a clue on what to look for pro's cons? Can you help!!! We are looking at a 5 axes Busellato with nested table and pods. Maybe 5 x 20 table. What cnc is the industry standard or the best? We do a lot of custom work panel, carvings, radius, ect.. Is there any internet sites with reviews of cnc's?

Thanks

[lakeside]

BEFORE BUYING NEW LOOK FOR USED HERE JUST ONE LINK IF YOU GO NEW LOOK AT HAAS FADAL AND THE BEST BUT TWICE AS MUCH(WORTH THE MONEY)MATSUURA
http://www.machinetools.com/MT/machi...p&groupid=8004

http://www.machinetools.com/MT/machi...hineClass=used

[ger21]

We looked at Busselato when we bought a machine 7 years ago. They are excellent machines, but not the cheapest. Biesse also makes a very good machine. My advice is to spend several months doing research. Have your salesman show you machines in your area doing similar type work with the machines they're selling. Don't blindly trust what salesman tell you, either. You should probably also be looking at software packages if you're not using anything presently.

You might also want to ask around in the WoodWeb forums. http://www.woodweb.com/SiteMapForums.html/

[lakeside]

Don't blindly trust what salesman tell you, either.
http://www.woodweb.com/SiteMapForums.html/

Never trust a salesman and a little crying and lying can save a lot of money.Remember there is a huge mark-up built in to any machine and you know they will lie to you

[ger21]

I wasn't talking about the price. Make sure that they SHOW you that the machine will do what you need it to do.

[lakeside]

I was not only talking about price but performance at a company that I worked for once the wanted to buy a used machining center that had ridged tapping. The salesman said it did. When it showed up at the shop it did not and the same salesman said it's the buyer responsibility to inspected before shipping. Guess what they still need to buy a machine that has ridged tapping

[ger21]

Btw, these are woodworking machines he's talking about.

[lakeside]

Hi,

Looking to upgrade shop with a commercial cnc. Don't have a clue on what to look for pro's cons?
Thanks

The first question you need to decide. Is do you need a machine for just wood or will you be looking for a machine, to cut aluminum and stainless steel. Where as your work will be on boats. The two machines are not the same monster.

[ger21]

The Busselato he mentioned is a woodworking machine.

[lakeside]

my post was pro's and con' of commercail cnc. Both can cut wood and only one can cut stainlees. That the only point I'm trying to make. It would not be the first time someone thought that the monsters are the same, that all

[ger21]

From my perspective, the question was always about wood.

[lakeside]

I see your point completely and agree with you have a nice day

[MarkT]

The original poster stated;
1.) He was looking for a commercial CNC to do panels , carvings, etc. (Wood)
2.) Considering a Busselato (Wood)

For your applications, do not consider Fadal. Great machine for metal and composites, but not wood. Haas did offer a gantry style router but it is not up to the Europeans benchmark yet(I believe the spindle RPM was capped at 15k on that machine, no dedicated boring block) Haas is a good meduim priced metal machine tool.

Busselato has an excellent reputation, the machine you described sounds like a "dual" which has a flat table AND a pod table.
I think you should consider the following brands;
Biesse
Weeke
SCM
Komo
Morbidelli

Peruse their website, take notes, compare features, rule out some, then contact the mfg as you get more involved.

Best of Luck!

MarkT.

[lakeside]

If wood is the only thing you want to do. Your machine will be a lot less. But don't even think about running any thing but wood for long runs and don't even think about stainless. Many people think there needs are one thing, but then after buying and growing there needs change so you first Question is Pro's and Con's

[cdpaine]

It will be using mostly wood and some fiberglass. We were also looking at a digitizer from Prodim USA, Proliner? What is the "Europeans benchmark? This is who we are: www.HodgdonYachts.com. I plan on going to the Woodtek expo on Friday, in Connecticut.

Thanks for the post!

[lakeside]

look at vacuum systems while your there

[MarkT]

I consider the Europeans to be the benchmark in CNC Routers / CNC Point to Point machines. They have evolved the machinery to a speciality type machine status. Unlike metal machines, most router users know they will be cutting primarily wood, plastics, some composites or aluminum. Most router manufacturers know this, so they opt not to build a very heavy duty machine, reducing the needs for hydraulics. They opt for speed instead most exceeding rapid feed rates of 3000+ inches per minute.
The spindles are also designed with the material they will machine in mind, 20,000 - 30,000 rpm spindles being very common. Most will achieve max torque at 18,000 - 20,000 rpm. These spindles perform at a level to achieve the high feeds that are common (300-800 ipm).
Most come with dedicated boring blocks which can hold up to 20+ vertical and 8+ horizontal drill bits. The advantage here being that you do not need to execute a tool change on your router spindle to drill a hole. Often the boring units come with saw attachments built in also.
To me, the design concept of these machines are very well thought out. Ussually with a CNC mill made for metal, you get one spindle, one tool changer. RPM band less that 10,000. Do not get me wrong, this is what you NEED if you primarily machine metal. But it can not process wood at anywhere near the time a router can. Two entirely different applications.
I ope this helps, my advice to you at the show is to look, ask ALOT of questions, talk to as many of the technicians working the machinery as possible. In fact, talk to the technicans more than the sales staff!
If anymore questions email me at [email protected] or visit my website www.cnccustomservices.com and email me from there!
Best of Luck
MarkT.

[cdpaine]

At the show I saw Onsrud, Komo, Multicam, Holz Her, Thermwood, Busellato (reps no machine). How do these company's rate? Impressed with Onsrud and Komo?

Thanks

[CNCRob]

We have an Onsrud panel pro series router where I work. For what we use them for (cutting parts for furniture) they are a great machine.

[cdpaine]

Names that we are looking at: Busellato, Multiax, Multicam, Heian, Hol zer, Komo, Onsrud, Thermwood. Not sure of some of the spelling. Looking for sales and service also.