[jrmach]

Yes I can sketch up a quick model similar to what I am talking about for the block with boss's but that is just one example. And it is no problem to get what I want it just takes a bit more work but when you charge by the minute every one counts. For instance when doing this block from a model you have to go around the outside in a separate feature because you can't do a pocket face option to get true clean up or draw geometry out side your model to fake it, both of which take added time. And yes I already have crap loads of features saved which at first I was unhappy there was no copy and paste option but this works and is good for sister parts.

Almost there.

[pp-TG]

Maybe not quite confirmed yet.Post a model of said pocketing job.Then we will give confirmation.

So are you insinuating my frustration is I don't know how to program and rely on software?

[pp-TG]

Here is a model.... How would you handle it?

[SBC Cycle]

18 minutes from download, no extracted edges (except for measurement purposes), no additional geometry other than making a copy of the solid and shifting it down -0.01" for allowance purposes (I like to run finish cuts).

If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I did not set any speeds and feeds FYI.

[SBC Cycle]

Same file but using Machine cutter comp (G41/G42).

I also incorrectly drilled the holes as "blind" when they should have been "through".

[jrmach]

I used extract,I know that is a work-around,I used dashed lines,That must be a work-around.I only did pocketing.We are talking less than 5 minutes.



BTW,there are still more ways.If you have hard metal I could go a HSP option with open pocket.And there are still other ways.

[RAF.]

I would think this a simple 2D cut or is it suppose to be cut as a 3D cut
I did it as a 2D with a clean up pass sides and bot

[Machineit]

Oh for god sake..............

Excuse me, but either you do not know how to use it or you do and don't like it. Which is it? If you don't like it, sell it and get one you do like! How damn hard is that to understand?

Mike

[jrmach]

So are you insinuating my frustration is I don't know how to program and rely on software?

No sir,you confirmed it.
You appear to be a very experienced Cad/Cam person,beyond my capabilities
BUT
You are at. "Hobbyist level"with with BoB...Maybe intermediate.
You are having buyers remorse,,,and thats ok,BoB may not be at the level you are looking for,,I get that,there are better
BUT....................

[pp-TG]

Thanks guys. I really do appreciate the time taken on this. I have done the above but all took more then one feature to accomplish or I felt were ineffitionte. which I guess I am calling a workaround but may be a bad term. I never said you couldn't do these things but to get the efficiency I want it takes multiple features and/or some hand editing and/or added geometry or all the above to use and that takes time. I am looking long term here 5-10 minutes for extra programing X 3-4 jobs a week X 2 years=? Lots of retracts and z feeding and air cutting. Look at inches cut vs moved vs actual material to be removed. For one or two parts no big deal at all but 5000+? If you hand coded this part do you think the program itself would be more efficient? (Less cycle time) I know it is achievable and it may just take some time to get use to it. Just like every time I cut a counter bore and rough and finish with the same tool or take a spring pass in a pocket you can't force the tool to stay down you have to rapid up and feed back down. Why? Again this is hand editing for efficiency. I know there will be no software that gives me exactly what I want, I get that but am looking for what gets me closest and that is what I am trying to figure out.

I am training a new programmer, I am the only one I have right now so time is valuable. This is good software for training also because some of this stuff IMO.

[pp-TG]

No sir,you confirmed it.
You appear to be a very experienced Cad/Cam person,beyond my capabilities
BUT
You are at. "Hobbyist level"with with BoB...Maybe intermediate.
You are having buyers remorse,,,and thats ok,BoB may not be at the level you are looking for,,I get that,there are better
BUT....................

Ok, that may be the case but why can't this be said then? That is exactly what I am trying to get at. Why did they sell it to me knowing what I needed/wanted? Why can't this be out there for others in my shoes? You are the first to say it is for hobbyist level/intermediate I wish I knew this 2 weeks ago. Why can't there be a pro/con list so people know what they get? You know as well as I do you can't go by a company's marketing or sales staff and that is what I thought forums were really good for problem solving and transparency.

I think for what it cost and what you get it is a good buy for some. Hell I just recommended it to someone today but was up front with it's capabilities and limitations but I knew was all they needed. I need more power/control I don't care about ease of use.

I just don't get why trying to find this out is so bad. You guys have been beyond helpful and I appreciate it but I don't get why its limitations can't be talked about with out saying I am bashing it I am not.

And by the way I would not call it buyers remorse, more of should I move on before I get to many programs that need to be redone in different software. I already have about 15-20 jobs in this one.

[aldepoalo]

pp-tg,

I want to create a video on your sample part to walk though the work flow. What you are asking about is open pocketing, and you'll find this option very useful. As an old MC user I am sure you'll be happy to know you can convert edges, or what we can extract edges from surfaces and solids. Best I know MC8 didn't offer this feature, so now you have it. ( correct me if I am wrong ) Also having to prep a part for machining in normal for all CAM systems. I am sure in MC8, you had to prep a part for machining, didn't you?

So let's do this, list out the steps start to finish you would take to program this part in MC8, give us your work flow and steps. This is important, so when I create the video I can go through your list step by step and show you what steps aren't needed and what's different. I am sure after ( we all ) go through this process you have a better understanding of what's different between MC8 and V25...

[jrmach]

Ok, that may be the case but why can't this be said then? That is exactly what I am trying to get at. Why did they sell it to me knowing what I needed/wanted? Why can't this be out there for others in my shoes? You are the first to say it is for hobbyist level/intermediate I wish I knew this 2 weeks ago. Why can't there be a pro/con list so people know what they get? You know as well as I do you can't go by a company's marketing or sales staff and that is what I thought forums were really good for problem solving and transparency.

I think for what it cost and what you get it is a good buy for some. Hell I just recommended it to someone today but was up front with it's capabilities and limitations but I knew was all they needed. I need more power/control I don't care about ease of use.

I just don't get why trying to find this out is so bad. You guys have been beyond helpful and I appreciate it but I don't get why its limitations can't be talked about with out saying I am bashing it I am not.

And by the way I would not call it buyers remorse, more of should I move on before I get to many programs that need to be redone in different software. I already have about 15-20 jobs in this one.

Read what I wrote more closely,,,I said "You are at. "Hobbyist level"with with BoB...Maybe intermediate."


not the software,,YOU

[jrmach]

I will say it again,you also do not have all the Bells and Whistles BoB offers.
I posted earlier "With more $$$$ you can upgrade from what you have and have a much more powerful software,BUT if you do,for Christ Sakes Demo it 1st.
I am not the one to fill you in on what else is available,as I know little about it.But I know there are 6 more multi-axis tool paths and I know there is a Pro version of simulation(not the one that comes with 3 axis pro),I know BoBART has a pro version.More money,but still below the the others."


And I also asked if Al could comment,as I have limited knowledge of these things.

[SBC Cycle]

Thanks guys. I really do appreciate the time taken on this. I have done the above but all took more then one feature to accomplish or I felt were ineffitionte. which I guess I am calling a workaround but may be a bad term. I never said you couldn't do these things but to get the efficiency I want it takes multiple features and/or some hand editing and/or added geometry or all the above to use and that takes time. I am looking long term here 5-10 minutes for extra programing X 3-4 jobs a week X 2 years=? Lots of retracts and z feeding and air cutting. Look at inches cut vs moved vs actual material to be removed. For one or two parts no big deal at all but 5000+? If you hand coded this part do you think the program itself would be more efficient? (Less cycle time) I know it is achievable and it may just take some time to get use to it. Just like every time I cut a counter bore and rough and finish with the same tool or take a spring pass in a pocket you can't force the tool to stay down you have to rapid up and feed back down. Why? Again this is hand editing for efficiency. I know there will be no software that gives me exactly what I want, I get that but am looking for what gets me closest and that is what I am trying to figure out.

I am training a new programmer, I am the only one I have right now so time is valuable. This is good software for training also because some of this stuff IMO.

Time is always valuable but it is also relative. I programmed your part while one machine was in the middle of a 45 minute run time and another I had just started a 22 minute cycle time (and enjoyed my pork tenderloin lunch). So my time on your job is technically still sitting at zero. I would, of course, still charge you for it. How do we factor that into the equation? If I had taken 45 minutes to program the part, my cost wouldn't be more, but my profit would be less.

If you wanted to know if I would program this differently if I had 5 parts or 5000 you really should have specified. Obviously I would concern myself more with air cuts if I was running 5000 parts. This is the downside to asking opinions on a forum. Rarely do you get all the pertinent information.

Do you spend an extra 5-10 minutes on efficiency? Well that depends. On 5000 parts if you took an extra two hours tweaking every second of cycle time out of it you could, you have added 2 seconds per part to the price. If you save more than 2 seconds per part with your tweaks, it's worth it. On 5 parts you will have added 24 minutes to each part. Did you save that by tweaking? It would be pretty difficult. Air cuts are more profitable unless they are costing you 20 some minutes of non-cutting time.

I am fortunate at being pretty good at numbers. I can look at a job and the quantity and know if I'm going the "quick and dirty" route or the "more features, more geometry, better efficiency" route. If I'm doing less than 10 pieces, unless the cycle time is extraordinarily long, I'm going quick and dirty. Start hand editing at the machine and you have now broken the CAD -> CAM -> Verification -> Machine link. I post code, verify (G-code of course, not simulation), load in machine, start, and walk away. You're going to stand there with your finger on the button until you get one done with no "oopsies" while I'm programming the next Op.

[aldepoalo]

I had a chance to talk with PP on the phone today. After 10 years of running mc there are just a few features that he is use to having at his finger tips. Based on what we spoke about, the main issues he is running into is the "production style " programming that he is use to with MC. Features like reverse direction of posting order, and stay down type tool paths. With that said, I feel we had a productive conversation and I did a demo with him on the software. I know I showed him a few things he didn't know BobCAD could do, and at this time he is still looking at his options. I feel there is a place for BobCAD in his shop, but it's up to him if he wants to use it...

[pp-TG]

I will not sit and argue this with you all any longer, I did get what I need to know from Al. (Thanks Al).

And one thing I think is definitely not lacking and has no limitations is BobCad's Customer Service if for no other reason I will keep at least one license in my proverbial tool box.

[BurrMan]

And one thing I think is definitely not lacking and has no limitations is BobCad's Customer Service .

Buwahahahahaaaa! That is hilarious!!!!

But not for the reason most think I mean, lol. (it's not up for discussion)

Al's a great guy. SO is the man!