[Hytek]

Now I am hoping there are still a few people out there who are familiar with the Dyna EM3116

Unfortunately I seem to have a few problems with my EM3116 at the moment

1/ I can't establish any link to the RS232 port. I need to get a backup of the hdd in the event of a crash as well as it would be nice to write a program at the comfort of my desk then transfer to machine.

2/ I keep getting warnings just after I have homed the machine:
458 Over-travel soft limit in the positive direction on the X axes. Remedy- move the axis into the allowable range......Ehhh...NOH! Doesn't work (this happens after machine has been homed and I try to run a program)
371 DRV: Home limit switch always touched, check the switch and cable. I have cleaned & tested both the X & Y axis switches and are working fine. This message comes with either a 10 or an 11 in brackets after it.

3/ Now I have saved the best for last, here's where the gremlins come in. Just tonight when I pressed the home button the machine began to home in the opposite direction to normal. I haven't touched anything or messed with any settings, I just turned the machine on in order to test the above fault. Reset the machine 3 times and got the same outcome.

Any help would be much appreciated

Oh and has anyone successfully managed to upgrade the motherboard in one of these things? Mine is a 1998 model with the Pentium processor. I would like to update it slightly so a USB stick could be used instead of hunting around for 3.5 floppy discs (also known as rocking horse ****)

[acannell]

Now I am hoping there are still a few people out there who are familiar with the Dyna EM3116

Unfortunately I seem to have a few problems with my EM3116 at the moment

1/ I can't establish any link to the RS232 port. I need to get a backup of the hdd in the event of a crash as well as it would be nice to write a program at the comfort of my desk then transfer to machine.

2/ I keep getting warnings just after I have homed the machine:
458 Over-travel soft limit in the positive direction on the X axes. Remedy- move the axis into the allowable range......Ehhh...NOH! Doesn't work (this happens after machine has been homed and I try to run a program)
371 DRV: Home limit switch always touched, check the switch and cable. I have cleaned & tested both the X & Y axis switches and are working fine. This message comes with either a 10 or an 11 in brackets after it.

3/ Now I have saved the best for last, here's where the gremlins come in. Just tonight when I pressed the home button the machine began to home in the opposite direction to normal. I haven't touched anything or messed with any settings, I just turned the machine on in order to test the above fault. Reset the machine 3 times and got the same outcome.

Any help would be much appreciated

Oh and has anyone successfully managed to upgrade the motherboard in one of these things? Mine is a 1998 model with the Pentium processor. I would like to update it slightly so a USB stick could be used instead of hunting around for 3.5 floppy discs (also known as rocking horse ****)

you might be REALLY lucky as i recently got a DM2900 and have been up to my n%%%s in its guts for quite awhile..if they are similar i can probably help you..but i dont know if they are similar or not though.

i believe the way the homing works is that it expects to see an index pulse from the encoder within a certain distance from when it sees the actual limit switch pressed. you can check to see if that distance is correct by using the HTEST function under the diagnostics page ..assuming your control is like mine. hit F7 when you are on the position page to go to the diagnostics page

my machine is setup correctly, but its still possible to get it to THUNK when homing where something goes wrong and it hits the physical limit stops..im not sure exactly what the odd things are..but i think its some combination of exceeding the soft travel limits and then attempting to home it.

if you are getting an error with the soft travel limits, then check what they are in the parameters, maybe they are set to something odd..if the machine exceeds those limits for some reason you will get the error. it may be that your homing switches arent working or something like that..

also in the htest page you can check encoder pulses and make sure they are doing what they are supposed to be doing

instead of upgrading the motherboard, you can get a floppy drive to USB adapter on ebay for $50...it replaces the floppy drive and makes it so a usb flash drive can be used instead.

its really not hard to find floppy discs online..you may want to consider using them..i have been using floppies on mine and its really no big deal

there are alot of settings going on with getting RS232 to work, both on the control and your computer. how knowledgeable are you with getting serial communications up and running in this sort of situation? if you are a beginner, there could just be some dumb setting thats wrong. if you are an expert, then i would start thinking an internal cable is bad or possibly the serial port..after all these years

[Fastest1]

My 2400 and 3000 both have homing switches, not encoders for homing. They might require cleaning (a simple task).

[Fastest1]

Never mind i reread the post. You already cleaned them. This had nothing to do with the reversal. Btw, a user here named Caprirs (IIRC) was a Dyna tech. He will most likely chime in.

[acannell]

My 2400 and 3000 both have homing switches, not encoders for homing. They might require cleaning (a simple task).

just to be clear, the dyna 2900 i have has physical homing switches, and also encoders on each axis stepper motor. im not sure if the 3116 does though.

also, if you cant get ahold of caprirs (sp?) robert at dyna tech support is very helpful and has really gone above and beyond for me within the past few months...you can find their number by googling the dyna mechtronics website

[Hytek]

Thanks for the replies acannell & Fastest1

After posting this thread I did manage to get a hold of Roberto, not so easy with time difference in mind. So after yet another sleepless night I left that conversation a little clearer as well as confusing the both of us lol. My machine is apparently of rogue spec :/ it has an NT40 spindle arrangement (only offered with R8 or NT30), a 5HP motor (only offered with a 3HP) and somehow has Windows 95 running in the background (these are a DOS based machine). As far as we could establish over the phone it is a Dyna unit in spite of these oddities.

Suggestions put forth by Roberto:
Make my own RS232 cable following the configuration set out in the help menu. An off the shelf cable MIGHT not have the correct config and could cause the breakdown in communications. Also I could remove the hdd and install it into a desktop as a slave unit to copy the files. To run the actual program from a desktop has many boundaries involved such as 32 bit only & only certain versions of windows are compatible.

Check in the PLC section of the machine for the functionality of the limit switches. This showed that the Y axis was always active tho physically all components test OK. Also the fact that the warnings only appear after I have homed the machine and am trying to run a program would suggest the limits are working fine. This does remind me of another issue I have with the machine that could actually be linked. On the Z axis sending it all the way up actually jams the machine requiring me to remove the front cover and manually reverse the ballscrew back into operating range. This strongly suggests an out of bounds issue in the parameters, something I am not too eager to mess with. On a side note, DAMN those limit switches are expensive!

As far as the reverse operation issue goes the only suggestion he could make was the possibility of corrupt software. He also suggested I could check over the settings but without the machines serial number they have no way of giving me the exact settings for this machine as they are all individual in setup from factory.

From this point I think my next steps are: 1. install HDD into desktop and get a backup made 2. make an RS232 cable 3. consider replacing the limit switches (for something a little easier on the pocket of course) & 4. use the damn thing manually if all else fails

Thanks again guys for your help and I will keep you posted with my progress. Maybe one day my woes will become somebody elses savior.

[acannell]

Thanks for the replies acannell & Fastest1

After posting this thread I did manage to get a hold of Roberto, not so easy with time difference in mind. So after yet another sleepless night I left that conversation a little clearer as well as confusing the both of us lol. My machine is apparently of rogue spec :/ it has an NT40 spindle arrangement (only offered with R8 or NT30), a 5HP motor (only offered with a 3HP) and somehow has Windows 95 running in the background (these are a DOS based machine). As far as we could establish over the phone it is a Dyna unit in spite of these oddities.

Suggestions put forth by Roberto:
Make my own RS232 cable following the configuration set out in the help menu. An off the shelf cable MIGHT not have the correct config and could cause the breakdown in communications. Also I could remove the hdd and install it into a desktop as a slave unit to copy the files. To run the actual program from a desktop has many boundaries involved such as 32 bit only & only certain versions of windows are compatible.

Check in the PLC section of the machine for the functionality of the limit switches. This showed that the Y axis was always active tho physically all components test OK. Also the fact that the warnings only appear after I have homed the machine and am trying to run a program would suggest the limits are working fine. This does remind me of another issue I have with the machine that could actually be linked. On the Z axis sending it all the way up actually jams the machine requiring me to remove the front cover and manually reverse the ballscrew back into operating range. This strongly suggests an out of bounds issue in the parameters, something I am not too eager to mess with. On a side note, DAMN those limit switches are expensive!

As far as the reverse operation issue goes the only suggestion he could make was the possibility of corrupt software. He also suggested I could check over the settings but without the machines serial number they have no way of giving me the exact settings for this machine as they are all individual in setup from factory.

From this point I think my next steps are: 1. install HDD into desktop and get a backup made 2. make an RS232 cable 3. consider replacing the limit switches (for something a little easier on the pocket of course) & 4. use the damn thing manually if all else fails

Thanks again guys for your help and I will keep you posted with my progress. Maybe one day my woes will become somebody elses savior.

it sounds like you may need to get a little more in depth with your machine. if its at all like mine, then the software overtravel parameters are just that..locations in x, y, and z that if reached will cause the control to say "error"..thats it..no big deal.

if your limit switches are like mine, the mycom brand with the transparent cubic zirconia ( i think) plunger, you can get very similar ones on ebay for about $90 each. i think dyna wants something insane like $300. they are in the same family but may have slightly different mounting styles and/or wiring. they have extremely high quality repeatability . a lower quality limit switch might not give you very good repeatability, which could reduce the usefulness of your homing function..if there is a way around this please say something someone because id like to replace my z axis limit switch with a cheaper one without losing the repeatability

my z axis one had a problem with showing "always on", even though it looked fine. i ended up pulling out the little clear plunger until it popped out! then i used brake cleaner on the inside and put the plunger back in. works great! i think ive put about 100 homes on it and it still works..although i think i tore the microscopic oring that is on the plunger, so it might fall out someday.

i did the hdd pull and copied the files. what control software are you using? you might be able to exit to dos and just copy the 4m directory to a floppy. its really small.

if your system is like mine, id definitely ditch windows and get things down to DOS as dyna intended. you dont want background processes interfering with real time cnc processes.

[Hytek]

So today I removed the hdd and installed it into my desktop, opened up 'my computer' and noticed 2 new drives. The first one contained all of the 4M operation software as well as a couple of file that caught my eye named 'user data' & 'old user data'

The second new drive (H) labeled GAMES was far more interesting. It did in fact contain games......as well as music, resumes, job applications, video clips and a little bit of porn O.o Now I am quite certain this was not on the hdd originally supplied by Dyna lol

Now I was able to get the 4M (version 2.14) software to run on my old laptop, though it did have a few issues like buttons placed on top of each other and or greyed out with no writing on them to suggest their function. It seems a bit clunky through the laptop but I am guessing this is just a config that did not transfer across. Also noted that it's a double click on the buttons to activate through the computer. Now being as I cannot make a copy of the H drive I am a little hesitant to just format the drive and start again until I know I have everything needed to run the machine again, but that is my intention.

By the description I think my limit switches may be different to yours. Mine have a white plastic plunger and a spring loaded rubber boot covering them. As soon as I get a chance I will add a pic of them. They are unfortunately a well sealed unit and I was unable to do anything more than soak them in contact cleaner overnight. As far as replacing them goes I have wondered about using proximity sensors. I have used them many times in my normal job and found them to be very reliable and 100% coolant proof. Weather they would be suitable for this application I can't say, but the answer to that is only a test away.

Thanks again for your reply and I will keep you posted

[Fastest1]

I can't imagine why proximity sensors wouldn't work just as well.

[acannell]

I can't imagine why proximity sensors wouldn't work just as well.

im not sure either..id like to know this. the mycom limit switches on the DM2900 are rated at 0.001mm repeatability.http://pfinder.baumer.com/pfinder_se..._80_web_EN.pdf plus i think the zirconium oxide plugner they use never wears so everything stays accurate for a very very long time. but if there was a way to get a cheaper switch to work that would be really nice as i have a feeling my limit switches are going to die soon, since the z axis one started to..

[acannell]

So today I removed the hdd and installed it into my desktop, opened up 'my computer' and noticed 2 new drives. The first one contained all of the 4M operation software as well as a couple of file that caught my eye named 'user data' & 'old user data'

The second new drive (H) labeled GAMES was far more interesting. It did in fact contain games......as well as music, resumes, job applications, video clips and a little bit of porn O.o Now I am quite certain this was not on the hdd originally supplied by Dyna lol

Now I was able to get the 4M (version 2.14) software to run on my old laptop, though it did have a few issues like buttons placed on top of each other and or greyed out with no writing on them to suggest their function. It seems a bit clunky through the laptop but I am guessing this is just a config that did not transfer across. Also noted that it's a double click on the buttons to activate through the computer. Now being as I cannot make a copy of the H drive I am a little hesitant to just format the drive and start again until I know I have everything needed to run the machine again, but that is my intention.

By the description I think my limit switches may be different to yours. Mine have a white plastic plunger and a spring loaded rubber boot covering them. As soon as I get a chance I will add a pic of them. They are unfortunately a well sealed unit and I was unable to do anything more than soak them in contact cleaner overnight. As far as replacing them goes I have wondered about using proximity sensors. I have used them many times in my normal job and found them to be very reliable and 100% coolant proof. Weather they would be suitable for this application I can't say, but the answer to that is only a test away.

Thanks again for your reply and I will keep you posted

i think if you just make a proper autoexec.bat and config.sys you dont need to wipe the hard drive, and it will boot straight into 4M like it was supposed to, even if windows 95 is still on there.

also, i believe you can find the parameters specific to your machine inside the help file in the 4m directory.

what do you mean by buttons on top of other buttons and grayed out buttons, can you take a picture? some of that may be normal for the 4m control. i.e. on mine buttons usually stack on top of each other on the lower right corner, and there are usually a few grayed out buttons depending on which page you are on

[Hytek]

Fastest1;
the main reason I have considered using proximity sensors/switches is that they are non contact in the way they operate. No moving parts means nothing to wear out But I have concerns. The cheaper ones have a fair amount of approach sensing, tho the mid range units which get down to around 1mm sensing range are still considerably cheaper than the original Dyna units. My other concerns with this type of switch is swarph and mounting surroundings. They are designed to sense iron, well the ones I use are at least. Now I have an added concern, after reading the specs in acannell's reply I don't think this type of switch will be up to scratch. Especially if we're looking for a cheaper alternative to the Dyna unit which limits us to the mid range market.

acannell;
I have sent a copy of my 4M folder to Roberto @ Dyna. He feels he should be able to wade through it and send it back in its original form, settings done and all. Due to the fact I am a technotard this offer appeals to me greatly

The more I investigate these problems the more interesting things get. I did the H-test as you suggested and it came up fine. Prior to the reversing issue the machine would home without fault. The fault wouldn't occur until I tried to leave the homed position to start a program. Both of the above would suggest the limit switches and encoders are working fine. In the PLC section the Y axis limit switch shows up faulty, even with the connector unplugged it still shows fault. Fresh limit switch harness still bares the same fault. Everything so far is pointing back to either faulty driver or software issues. If you can think of anything else please feel free to say.

One thing I keep forgetting to mention is operated manually (via the buttons) everything works fine. All axis travel in the desired direction as you would expect. It's only when attempting to home the machine the Y axis operates in reverse. Can't speak for the other axis's as it never gets that far before giving off the warning and shutting down.

Thanks again guys your help is much appreciated

[acannell]

Fastest1;
the main reason I have considered using proximity sensors/switches is that they are non contact in the way they operate. No moving parts means nothing to wear out But I have concerns. The cheaper ones have a fair amount of approach sensing, tho the mid range units which get down to around 1mm sensing range are still considerably cheaper than the original Dyna units. My other concerns with this type of switch is swarph and mounting surroundings. They are designed to sense iron, well the ones I use are at least. Now I have an added concern, after reading the specs in acannell's reply I don't think this type of switch will be up to scratch. Especially if we're looking for a cheaper alternative to the Dyna unit which limits us to the mid range market.

acannell;
I have sent a copy of my 4M folder to Roberto @ Dyna. He feels he should be able to wade through it and send it back in its original form, settings done and all. Due to the fact I am a technotard this offer appeals to me greatly

The more I investigate these problems the more interesting things get. I did the H-test as you suggested and it came up fine. Prior to the reversing issue the machine would home without fault. The fault wouldn't occur until I tried to leave the homed position to start a program. Both of the above would suggest the limit switches and encoders are working fine. In the PLC section the Y axis limit switch shows up faulty, even with the connector unplugged it still shows fault. Fresh limit switch harness still bares the same fault. Everything so far is pointing back to either faulty driver or software issues. If you can think of anything else please feel free to say.

One thing I keep forgetting to mention is operated manually (via the buttons) everything works fine. All axis travel in the desired direction as you would expect. It's only when attempting to home the machine the Y axis operates in reverse. Can't speak for the other axis's as it never gets that far before giving off the warning and shutting down.

Thanks again guys your help is much appreciated

you should really get familiar with the parameters if you are going to use the mill, they are not something you can ignore, some of them need to be modified occasionally to use the mill properly. they are pretty easy to get your head around, but you will definitely need the users and operators manuals and print out the help file (or put it on your real computer, its just text) so you can figure out whats what.

to diagnose the home switch, id go into the PLC ladder on the control and see what state the switch is in. its possible that the PLC ladder has been modified and now the switch always shows up bad, and you just have to toggle it to the opposite state. but since it doesnt respond at all to the switch, there may be an electrical fault. unless you are comfy with a multimeter and tracing the signal back to the main pcb (which i would recommend if you having any experience doing that sort of thing) you will probably need to get help from robert. he may have a "technotard" troubleshooting method lolol

[Hytek]

Ok ok I asked for that one By 'technotard' I am more referring to the fact I am hesitant to just go changing things as I don't fully understand the inner software side of things. The last thing I wanna do is brick the machine through my idiocy or lack of knowledge. And yes you are right, I do need a solid understanding of these things in order to operate the machine properly. As far as component testing and using a multimeter no problems there. Regardless, I did run a fresh harness from the limit switch to the driver so I don't think that would be the problem. The answer to my problems 'might' be in this email I got from Dyna this morning.

Hello Michael
can you take a picture of the inside of the whole power pack box, i want to see if this machine has an ac inverter to drive the ac three phase motor.
or if it is using only a magnetic contactor to turn the spindle on/off.

other than that the software you have on the machine is for sure corrupted...
I will clean them up and rezip them and send the 4m files back to you later this week.
Best Regards, Robert
Dyna Service Dept.

Hopefully a tidy up around the machine and rectified software will bring an end to this adventure. I will let you know once I receive the software back.

[Hytek]

Problem solved!!
I made the changes to the software, which included deleting quite a few files, and she's back up and running It turns out whoever installed the 4M software on the rogue drive didn't know what they were doing and it looked as if they were trying to make a patch for it to run through windows and use things like USB, CD drives etc. Still not sure how I have managed to avoid triggering the issue for the last 2 years O.o But it's working now and that's the main thing

Just wanna thank you guys for your input. Much appreciated!