[diarmaid]

Its all so complicated. Maybe I'll just save for another 18 months and buy most of it here...

In the previous posts I've only been talking about my woodworking equip, when I add in another $15,000 for the rest of my setup I might have saved enough to just buy a freq conv for 2k and still be in better shape than buying here.

I know its off the point but just for general info if anyones wondering:
Reciprocating saw USA $129 - Ireland $734.47.....
Jig Saw USA $239 - Ireland $680.....
Cut-Off Tool USA $229.99 - Ireland $529.43.....
Belt Sander USA $189.99 - Ireland $478.97.....
Circular Saw USA $229 - Ireland $694.04.....
Double-Bevel Compound Miter Saw USA $399 - Ireland $1267.41
24v Sds Rotary Hammer USA $499 - Ireland $808.19...

These are some of my potential imports. They're the exact same tools, I checked by model number to see if it was worth my while. And some of the cheaper US ones come with free accessories that the Irish dont!! I hope the Irish tourist board doesn't come hunting me for all the bad publicity!!

[martinw]

Dear diarmaid,

Those Irish prices are eye-watering! I thought it was bad enough in the UK, but even we seem to be doing not to badly compared to Ireland.

Here's an idea.. buy the tools in the UK and get round the frequency problem, spares etc. You may not have to pay VAT or import duty either, but I'm not sure about that.

If you want to see what things cost in the UK, check out these people..


http://www.axminster.co.uk/

or dig around on www.ebay.co.uk

or try www.screwfix.com


Just a thought.

Best wishes

Martin

[diarmaid]

Thanks martin. Checked them quickly, will go back in more detail though. Screwfix seems a bit cheaper than here after conversion but they dont post to Ireland.....they didn't say why...strange...

I won't have to worry about VAT or Import duty because I'll have registered as a business b4 I buy them so I'll get any tax back.

Im waiting on a reply to a request for a freq & voltage conv quote. 220V 50 Hz in > 120V 60Hz out. Approx 8Kw. Irish type 'G' mains plug. 2 or 4 USA type 'B' sockets. Will post what quote I get.

[gar]

060501-1055 EST USA

diarmaid:

Consider this possibility:

Buy a 60 Hz 240 V center tapped single phase alternator. With a gas engine included these are ball park $1000 USD for about 5 KW.

Buy a UK motor, drive belts, and pulleys to make your own frequency converter. You obviously need a nominal 6/5 ratio, but actually you want slightly more. Also, this will eliminate most lightning, and momentary power problems.

If you want three phase, then get a three phase alternator.

You have to size the motor-alternator combination for your maximum continous load, and you also need to consider peak loading.

A motor generator (alternator) system is probably more reliable than a solid-state unit if good quality units are used. In industrial plants it is not unusual for induction motors to last 20 years of continuous duty with no maintenance.

If you did this and it worked well for you might turn this into a product and a business.

.

[diarmaid]

Thats an interesting idea. I'll certainly look into it. Not sure about the economies though with gas prices going through the roof.

[gar]

060501-1256 EST USA

diarmaid:

I was not suggesting the use of a gas power generator, rather gave that as a price point to judge the cost of an alternator. Probably 500 to 700 USD for a 5KW alternator.

.

[Geof]

Gar's suggestion is simply brilliant. I just have one suggestion; see if you can source in the US a 240V single phase motor that is rated for 50 - 60 hz they do exist. This could cut your cost compared with buying the motor in the UK.

Turning the idea into a product and a business might be difficult with CE mark requirements. For personal use I do not think there are any problems but importing for resale is a different can of worms.

[gar]

060501-1531 EST USA

Geof:

I keep thinking that some day we might put together a 50 HP or larger 3 phase generator, large flywheel, drive motor, and maybe a backup gas engine into a package for our shop.

Our power is pretty good these days so it is not a pressing matter. Sometime back we had significant problems that were finally isolated to the neutral and a hot wire having poor contact at the pole transformer. Cause aluminum wiring in that portion of the system. Personally I do not want aluminum wiring anywhere.

Note: three phase synchronous motors are also generators. It is just a matter of the direction of power flow.

One of my customers, a thousand person plant, found that after they bought a backup generator for their computer system that it could pay for itself in a very short time by supplying all or some of their peak load at the plant, and thus avoid or reduce power company peaking charges.

.

[diarmaid]

I'll let you know what I decide after looking into that. Thanks for the advice. It'll probably take me a bit of research ( Because I dont understand most of it! ) but I'll let you know how it goes. I'll go back to transformer guy with this info and see if he can put it all together for me. Thanks.

[martinw]

Dear diarmaid,

It's unlikely, but you might have missed this thread. It could be of interest.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19207

Best wishes

Martin

[diarmaid]

Thanks martin. I hand't seen that. A vfd seems like a good possibility. Does anyone know any more info about these? What do they consist of? Can I simply plug my voltage transformer into mains, vfd into transformer, and equipment into vfd? That sounds like there must be a catch....its basically a cheap frequency converter...!

[diarmaid]

Hi again all,
After all my humming about the different possibilities and investigating them I have found out four points of information that might help anyone with the same problem in future:

1) I got an online quote from http://www.georator.com for a frequency converter built to my specifications (220V 50Hz in - 110V 60Hz out), turns out they are quite expensive...$8105...we'll call this plan Z.

2) I got in touch with Wade at http://www.valuetronics.com. He has a Behlman 25-C-400 AC Power source that he says might work. He says this unit will take 220/50Hz input and can output fixed 60Hz/ 0-150VAC. The price is $450 USD. This is my fall back plan in case number 4 below doesn't work.

3) It turns out that 110V 60Hz alternators and 220V motors are not that easy to come by. Although Im sure not impossible, Im not going to spend any more time trying to find them in case I make my own converter and I screw it up wasting money. Nice idea though martin (Now that I figured it out! ). I might try to build one eventually for the fun of it, Im curious.

4)The overwhelming information I've got says that they will probably all work just fine with a sufficient transformer and no freq conversion. Hence, I've decided that my best solution is...Im going to chance it!

I can always go with No. 2...or 3, above if it goes belly up. The british site of the company Im buying them from in the USA (More expensive) just recommends a transformer for some of them on their site. I've e-mailed them to find out if the ones without this recommendation are sold as 220V 50Hz in England, if not then they're the exact same as my US ones and should be ok. If they are then I'll prob chance the US ones anyway.

Cheers folks. :cheers:
L8rs.

[CurtisU]

Plan Z indeed,

I'd be interested in how this turns out since I may be returning to the UK in the next few years.

Unless my priorities change I'll have several power tools I'll want to bring with me. When I came here I brought a 230/50 benchtop grinder and jigsaw with me, grinder RPM's higher, as expected, torque way down. Haven't had the nerve to plug in the jigsaw. On my trip to the UK I took a Jet woodworking lathe and bandsaw (120/240V selectable) and some smaller tools with me that worked okay thru a transformer. Eventually replaced the lathe motor (APTC) cos it did get pretty hot.

Please update us.

Curtis

[martinw]

Hi again all,
. Nice idea though martin (Now that I figured it out! ). I might try to build one evetually for the fun of it, Im curious.

.

Dear diarmaid,

I'm really glad that you have a workable strategy. Please let everybody know how it turns out.

Just one point.... it was gar not me that came up with the brilliant alternator idea. I do not deserve the credit for that.

Best wishes

Martin

[Geof]

....It turns out that 110V 60Hz alternators and 220V motors are not that easy to come by....

I cannot comment on the motor but I know alternators capable of outputting 120V 60Hz single phase are made in the UK by Newage International Ltd, Stamfor, Lincolnshire, ph 44 (0) 1780 484000, www.newagestamford.com

[diarmaid]

Oops! Sorry bout that gar.

Martin, quick question, did Porter Cable get back to you ref your router?

New information arrived today from http://www.actechinternational.com/ about using a frequency inverter to solve my problem. I might be in luck! This looks like it might become 'Plan A'. I emailed the manufacturers to get more info on max wattage, and recommended retail price for these, so waiting for a reply. Hopefully it'll relate to the cost of my transformer. Can someone tell me if I have to get an electrician to fit this to my mains supply or can I plug it in like a transformer? Thanks. Pic's are shown below for info.

Hey Curtis, plug in the jigsaw and let us know how it goes....maybe some exciting pics too...

DISCLAIMER: If Curtis plugs in his jigsaw and it explodes causing injury I have no responsibility whatsoever!!

[martinw]

Martin, quick question, did Porter Cable get back to you ref your router?

Dear diarmaid,

Just to recap..

PC router 690 LRVS is 120v AC 25-60 Hz

The 891 and 892 are 120v AC 60 This info. is on the PC website.

As explained in post #16, PC replied to say that all three are not suitable for use at 50Hz.

As to my subsequent query (sent eight days ago) about the 690 LRVS at 110v AC 50 Hz........

no reply. Ah well...

Best wishes

Martin

[martinw]

The 891 and 892 are 120v AC 60

The above should read
"The 891 and 892 are 120v AC 60 Hz."

Sorry about the typo.

Martin

[Al_The_Man]

These look like VFD's as I mentioned earlier, you have the option of 1ph or 3ph in but it look like they are all 3ph out, which as I suggested you would have to use two phases out only.
These have wire terminal in/out so for input you need a power cord from the VFD and a wall socket on the other end.
You notice the 1ph in has L1 L2/N, so the neutral goes to L2.
Again the output is hardwired which you would need to attach a socket outlet to.
Don't forget to attach the ground to the inverter and the output socket.
Do not set them to anything but the correct frequency for Capacitor start induction motors.
Keep in mind that with this set up although you will have a ground, you will not have a grounded neutral to the output socket, due to all three phase are above ground.
Al.

[diarmaid]

Thanks. If I end up with one of these and wire it up myself I'll throw some photos up here before plugging it in. If I get an electrician friend to do it ( Which is likely ), I'll throw up some photos anyway for referance.
L8rs.