[chemosavi]

Hi folks. Long time plasmacam owner going to meet the brave new world and get a machine that actually does what it's supposed to do.
Tossing and turning over the decision. FastCut Canadians are close by but really like the feel of the DT folks and their machine, plus it has scrolling and if XLS, nesting software. Belt drives vs gears on the XLS. Any opinions on the two machines? Tried both?

Thanks, Anthony ANTHONY HOWE SCULPTURE

[chemosavi]

Answered my own question. Going with the DynaTorch. Collision detection, laser guidance, and scribing, all options not offered by FastCut. And if there's one thing I've learned not so well, get it if you think you'll need it when it comes to metal work. The Fastcut looks good and if I was Canadian it would be more difficult.
Thanks

[CNCCajun]

Please keep us posted on the XLS . . . I'm looking at the same machine in a 4X4 configuration . . .

After looking at your site, I'm not sure which is more impressive . . . . your work, your biography, your shop or your location . . . .

All so very nice . . . .

Steve in Louisiana,

[DareBee]

The fastcut appears to be a great machine. HOWEVER it was TWICE the price of the XLR8 (DT) that I bought so I didn't go beyond the pricing stage.
The XLS appears to be same as XLR8 without downdraft (quick glance at specs).
IMO if you are going to move up to XLS, might as well go all the way to XLR8 and have fume control.
Plasma fumes are nasty

[chemosavi]

I could be wrong but the XLR8 has servos that allow a high definition plasma machine to work on it whereas the XLS does not. There is a substantial price increase for this difference and not a huge difference in reliability and operability. I will never get an HD machine since it requires 3phase and to get that in my facility would cost roughly twice that of the machine. I have been removing the fumes from my plasmacan't for 15 years with a homemade system. Many thanks for your advice, irregardless.

[CNCCajun]

The XLS is available with a water table or downdraft.

You are correct, basically the only difference between the XLS and the XLR8 is the latter of the two has the ability to handle HIGH DEFINITION PLASMA CUTTERS.

Steve

I could be wrong but the XLR8 has servos that allow a high definition plasma machine to work on it whereas the XLS does not. There is a substantial price increase for this difference and not a huge difference in reliability and operability. I will never get an HD machine since it requires 3phase and to get that in my facility would cost roughly twice that of the machine. I have been removing the fumes from my plasmacan't for 15 years with a homemade system. Many thanks for your advice, irregardless.

[DareBee]

Please explain WHAT it is that makes it high-def capable?

[xjdubber]

Collision detection is a must, I find it strange that fastcut cnc would not offer this. I see they are located even closer to me then they are to you, next time I drive trough there I might just stop in to see what they are all about. Laser guidance and scribing are two options that I personally don't see much benefit in if you think you can use them great, however ive installed a lot of tables that had them for people that thought they would use them. (and trust me they dont)

[CNCCajun]

I agree. It seems a more economical way to mark would be to run a (side attached to torch) spring loaded marker on the whole uncut sheet first. This would mark your parts for the customer. Then run your cut file.

Although it might be useful for bend lines.

The laser might be handy for a newbie like me to see where I am.

Steve

[CNCCajun]

The High-Def capable is due to the control system. The compo nets in the XLR8 are of a type that are not affected by the noise created by the High-Def plasma systems. I believe DynaTorch is paying an industrial electronics company to build the control panel for the XLR8. A lot of shielding is involved.

Please explain WHAT it is that makes it high-def capable?

[DareBee]

Mine is not like that.
I just checked and you have to get the XLR8 HF for hi-def

[CNCCajun]

Yes, you are correct . . . . ONLY the XLR8 has the board, components, shielding, etc. . . that make it suitable for a High Definition Plasma Cutter

Mine is not like that.
I just checked and you have to get the XLR8 HF for hi-def

[chemosavi]

On my plasmacan't I've spent quite a bit of time in the last 15 years trying to figure out where to start a cut on an old sheet with lots of old cuts. And sometimes gotten it wrong and driven the torch into an edge and ruined a belt. (collision detection- not problem) Or I'm just trying to slice up a fully cut sheet to get it off the table and done it by hand. With a joystick and the laser I hope to do it easier. If you're cutting a huge project with hundreds of different shapes that get later assembled/welded, yes, you could sit there and label each one once it was cut. Very slow. Or prescribe all the parts before you cut them and probably do it without even watching the machine.
Laser engraving would be nice but after looking at lasers and trying to justify the cost of a machine that could cut semi quickly 1/16" stainless it just doesn't pan out. 200k minimum. Then guys say have it cut for you. Well if you're prototyping a new thingamajig you need to make constant adjustments to whatever you're making and the time delay is just killer when you have a head of steam on a project. I'm blathering now. Onwards...................

[DareBee]

On my plasmacan't I've spent quite a bit of time in the last 15 years trying to figure out where to start a cut on an old sheet with lots of old cuts. And sometimes gotten it wrong and driven the torch into an edge and ruined a belt. (collision detection- not problem) Or I'm just trying to slice up a fully cut sheet to get it off the table and done it by hand. With a joystick and the laser I hope to do it easier. If you're cutting a huge project with hundreds of different shapes that get later assembled/welded, yes, you could sit there and label each one once it was cut. Very slow. Or prescribe all the parts before you cut them and probably do it without even watching the machine.
Laser engraving would be nice but after looking at lasers and trying to justify the cost of a machine that could cut semi quickly 1/16" stainless it just doesn't pan out. 200k minimum. Then guys say have it cut for you. Well if you're prototyping a new thingamajig you need to make constant adjustments to whatever you're making and the time delay is just killer when you have a head of steam on a project. I'm blathering now. Onwards...................

A few points.
- The laser cross hair used for sheet set up is great (and I would not go with out it).
- The ability to nest new parts in an old sheet carcass is only available in HIGH end nesting software, the version of Sigma nest that came with my DT does NOT support this.
- My XLR8 will not overrun any axis just like any CNC machine in my shop
- I have found the joystick DAMN NEAR USELESS. This I have to throw back at DT because their interface program is ****. I bought all my extras direct from DT (at premium price) because they promised everything to be interfaced, prewired and tuned. IMO this did not happen because my joystick wont do half the features it is supposed to and I can't figure out how to rectify this. OTOH the joystick cost me a whopping $40 and the "quickcut" feature in the DT software is excellent.
- As far as marking goes (I have no need for it) DT has a pneumatic driven etcher (I am sure you have seen the youtube vids of this). Sounds like you need it

[xjdubber]

I can see where the laser cross hairs could come in handy, and should say that I have only seen them on one machine I installed and did not use them on that machine ever as I'm not used to it. The pneumatic markers to me are garbage, metal tends to warp up and down and you will lose the setting for the marker. better off then to use the plasma torch for marking, allthough i cannot say i've used it much.

[CNCCajun]

How would you use the plasma torch to mark?
Just real low power?
If so, is that fairly accurate, maybe enough for bend lines?

Steve

I can see where the laser cross hairs could come in handy, and should say that I have only seen them on one machine I installed and did not use them on that machine ever as I'm not used to it. The pneumatic markers to me are garbage, metal tends to warp up and down and you will lose the setting for the marker. better off then to use the plasma torch for marking, allthough i cannot say i've used it much.

[jimcolt]

HyDefinition plasma, developed by Hypertherm in the mid 1990's is an industrial duty cycle plasma cutting system that dramatically increases the energy density of the plasma arc, by doing so, better edge squareness, a narrower kerf, and superior cut quality (especially on thin materials) are the result as compared to an air plasma torch. Hypertherm's current systems in this category are the HPR130xd, the HPR260xd, the HPR400xd and HPR800xd, with power levels from 130 to 800 amps for cutting from 26 gauge to 6" thick stainless and aluminum (up through 3" on carbon steel). The torches are liquid cooled, use oxygen as the plasma gas for steel and a variety of other gas mixes for stainless and aluminum, and provide for consumable life that can be as much as 10x longer than a typical air plasma system.

Since these plasma systems use a high frequency starting method (for better torch design accuracy) they can only be used on cnc machines that have an industrial hardened control and wiring system. Further, since the plasma cuts faster and with a more accurate arc.....the process requires a cutting machine with superior acceleration (minimum of 40 miligees at all speed ranges) as well as excellent rigidity, zero mechanical backlash, etc. Putting a $30k to $100k plasma system on a machine with less than stellar motion control and acceleration will not provide the best cut quality.

There are also automated versions of these Hypertherm HPRsystems that interface to the cnc controller using an ethernet style interface. With these systems the cut parameters are 100% set through the CAM software, gas flows, height control, cut speeds, even the proper shape for lead ins and lead outs for perfect hole quality is fully automated. To do this the cnc controller must be of an approved design (by Hypertherm) and must allow for special process coding in order to make these functions work.

So...HyDefinition plasma is a whole different world of 100% duty cycle high productivity plasma cutting. It cost a lot more to purchase, requires a much more complex, more accurate, more rigid motion control platform, yet it produces highly accurate parts at a much higher production rate at a lower operating cost as compared to the lower priced air plasma systems.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

Please explain WHAT it is that makes it high-def capable?

[jimcolt]

Hypertherm's HyDefinition plasma systems have the ability to mark using argon (argon does not cut metal, it leaves a very light mark for layout lines, etc) at about 15 amps....using the same consumables that cut steel using oxygen at up to 400 amps. With systems equipped with aut gas control...the part program can automatically swith from oxygen cutting (between 30 and 400 amps) to argon marking (at less than 15 amps) in less than 2.5 seconds. Marking from the same orifice that you are cutting from is far more accurate than marking from a separate device that is offset from the torch.

This technology is not available on any of Hypertherms air plasma systems.


Jim Colt Hypertherm

How would you use the plasma torch to mark?
Just real low power?
If so, is that fairly accurate, maybe enough for bend lines?

Steve

[chemosavi]

And Zarathustra spoke. And it was good. And there was life.
Thanks Jim for the clarification. I sent you an email awhile back asking about High Def. I spoke with Noah (I think it was) at Hypertherm instead and he encouraged me to upgrade my Hypertherm Torch to the Duramax RT and fine cut consumables. What an improvement! If only my plasmacan't had THC! One of the early ones...pretty funky.
I'll let you know if dynascribe is worth it in about four weeks when my machine gets delivered.

[Hworks]

I also have the scribe, I don't use it often in my business but it's nice to have for engraving and prototype work. Once set up create a file where you can check off-set accuracy before using, such as punch center and plasma cut round 1 inch diameter to check your bullseye is centered.
I use my game boy controller everyday to bring the torch to the start position on my 6x12 table, I have the wireless version and it's been reliable. I don't like to use it for hand cutting though, I probably don't have it set up correctly.
Good luck
Andy.