[bob1371]

After 2 years of being a Maintenance Supervisor for a CNC machine shop I finally gave it up and went to 3rd shift as a regular Maint Tech. The people my company was hiring had little or no experience, the engineering staff was of very little help and things were just becoming a mess. 3rd shift works out great but I do follow a 2nd shift crew that has about 8 months experience combined (3 guys).
I came in last night to something that just amazed me. I have to share this with everyone. We have a Mazak VMC3016 pallet change cnc machine. For some reason it would no longer execute the M911 or M912 commands (pallet change). They called one of the Engineers in and found that the only way to get it to work was to hit the Cycle Start button at Operator position then goto main panel and hit cycle start. To keep from having the operator walk around machine each cycle here is what they came up with after much thought (chair)

(2 wires and a push button would have been so much easier)

unfourtunately it is still like this as they would not allow me any time due to production requirements.

[2muchstuff]

That's an engineer for you, no practical knowledge.

[WhiteTiger]

Well that's just plain wrong. They need to retrain whoever did that rube goldberg... there's not a single piece of bailing wire in it. How can you do proper redneck engineering without any bailing wire?


Tiger

[bkinman]

Clearly they were just thinking like machinists =)

[One of Many]

HA! That is one for the record books........

While in Field service for machine tools, I did a pre-installation call to the purchasing company with their inhouse project Engineer. The machine was a 350Ton capacity Press Brake that required a pit for the bed extention below the floor level.

The guy looks at me with all seriouness and asks if we could CUT OFF the EXCESS so he did not need to cut his floor?

Duh.....


DC

[mxtras]

Wow. You have to be impressed with their 'engiuity'.

Scott

[NC Cams]

Think of the logic it took to come up with such a simple fix, especially when pressures were probably brought to bear to get the "GD POS thing running ASAP".

Surely no time to call the service rep due to whatever "legit" reason(s) (two days to schedule, another 4 for rep to find time to come or pay HUGE down time surcharge , 1-2 days diagnosis on-site, 20 minutes to change defective $3 widgit that was halfway defective at assembly with a final MINIMUM service fee of $2500 USD).

Besides, when the thing hurts somebody, it will be easeir to hide the evidence and yank the Rube fixe than to unwire a clearly UNAUTHORIZED mod to the factory wiring.

The engineer may have kluged it to get it to work BUT he at least got it working and I'll be he wasn't an Electical engineer to boot.... Consider yourself lucky because since you can't see electrons, you can't trust them.

[Geof]

Clearly they were just thinking like machinists =)

No, a good machinist would have made it far more complex. As White Tiger points out, no bailing wire, and also no duct tape. Totally inadequate.

[Rich Carlstedt]

Once had one of the chief engineers (master degree in engineering) tell me that computers are nice, but they were not 'logical"
He later designed a "float" for a 1000 gal tank using schedule 40 pipe.
He said --- after it "sank", that the customer had given him the wrong specific gravity of the tank contents ??
I said, " did't it seem odd that the Spec gravity was in the range of Mercury !
Rich

[ViperTX]

Okay....well there are technicians, engineers and machinists.....and as we all know....they each have varying amounts of experience, knowledge and common sense......didn't throw in the executives.....because we all know....they don't know squat.....*smile*

[widgitmaster]

Okay....well there are technicians, engineers and machinists.....and as we all know....they each have varying amounts of experience, knowledge and common sense......didn't throw in the executives.....because we all know....they don't know squat.....*smile*

And yet.... They sign the checks!

[NC Cams]

My guys disagree with a lot of the things I say and do.

Yet,

1. My name is on the front of building
2. My name is on the front of paycheck
3. I found a way to keep the doors open and business flowing in the midst of some pretty tough times
4. The business has more money in the check book at the end of the month than the beginning and all bills are paid.
5. When there is a problem, they look to me for a solution after they FUBAR something...
6. I am an engineer who's prime good trait is that I was taught and learned how to solve problems - no more no less.... The creativity part came from someplace else....

[One of Many]

Yes, and in so many organizations they are the first to take credit in most any success for 99% of the work they don't do, yet first to lay blame for failures in the process they help create.

Paying the cost to be the Boss is a time honored tradition for letting the lesser significant's know their place in the pecking order. Some will use it to pamper their own ego. Some will use it effectively, to help nurture talents in others. You can usually tell which group they belong in, by their first words in where they direct credit for their overall success.

Good management is done from a distance, letting people do their job, but willing to roll up sleeves when things don't go right, without micro-managing and belittling for the uncommon mishaps. Not a very effective team if the leadership considers subordinates inferior in intellect with constant supervision and berating.

Set the direction , steer as needed and give credit where due. Recognize talent and creativity and encourage its growth. Removal of any bad apples early, that could create broader problems down the road.

DC

[Geof]

Very well put One Of Many.

A few years ago I met a fellow who had established a successful business. He had an old (in age that is) friend who was to some extent his mentor. He was recounting to me how he was bragging to this old guy about how successful he was and the old guy said; "Son you done nothing you got nothing". "When you have a business that will keep going after you are gone then you have something and you have done something."

I suppose another way of phrasing it is to say if you feel you are indispensable then you are an inadequate boss.

edit: Most people have probably seen the inspirational posters along the lines of "It Is Difficult To Soar With Eagles When You Are Surrounded By Turkeys". The best comeback I ever read was; "You must be a hopeless eagle if you allow yourself to be surrounded by turkeys."

[Rich Carlstedt]

Some of the best companies I ever worked for were run by Engineers.
Note what NC Cams said for his first words..
"his guys disagree.... with him"
That is good, it shows his tolerance for criticism.That is something a lot of us can't take !
We only get better when we do better.
Their seems to be some management resentment here, so the only answer I have is you fellows should try it before you comment.
The Indian proverb applies.
"Walk a mile in his mocassins before you criticize"
Been there , done that. The toughest job in the world, is supervising people.
Micromangement is the greatest fault of the entraponeur. But not all do it.
When I ran one shop, 80% of my mangagement time went to 20 % of the workforce... the other 20 % was trying to get Engineering on a straight path.
No one said it was easy

good thread guys !
Rich

[One of Many]

Some of the best companies I ever worked for were run by Engineers.
Note what NC Cams said for his first words..
"his guys disagree.... with him"
That is good, it shows his tolerance for criticism.That is something a lot of us can't take !
We only get better when we do better.
Their seems to be some management resentment here, so the only answer I have is you fellows should try it before you comment.
The Indian proverb applies.
"Walk a mile in his mocassins before you criticize"
Been there , done that. The toughest job in the world, is supervising people.
Micromangement is the greatest fault of the entraponeur. But not all do it.
When I ran one shop, 80% of my mangagement time went to 20 % of the workforce... the other 20 % was trying to get Engineering on a straight path.
No one said it was easy

good thread guys !
Rich

It's not rocket science to realize employees can disagree with management all they want or leave if they can't deal with it. Typical of the proveb for criticism to be a one way ticket out the door.

Constructive criticism of management is nearly always seen as resentment. Yet criticism from above expects an appropriate and immediate change. It is not nearly enough to walk just a mile in their shoes to become them and see what makes them tick. Assuming they have character traits worthy of admiration.

My observations of poor management have to do with owners and supervisor alike that have developed the kingdom mentality. I can go one further in it being the most difficult job to do without the tale tell signs of creating the "It's all about me and what I did" while conveniently forgetting about those that actually did the work. Then see talent in a future team builder get let go, merely because they may be a threat to the kindoms status quo.

My obsevations of good management are from the "WE DID IT" or "They make me look better than I deserve". Taking the focus off of themselves and placing it in the hands of everyone to work together. Not with demands of OR ELSE or BECAUSE I SAID SO head games.

The 80/20 split of management time has been taught for eons as the bell shaped curve in the available talents of those below you. I have been told it is partially out of managements fear for loss of control and partially pay oriented that does not draw competent people to those positions. In my obsevations, it is a self inflicted dilema. By not having enough trust in delagation of authority, people will always need to be under someones thumb. Kind of like selecting turkeys to do the job of eagles. Then hand hold and criticise them as barely competent to do the jobs they were hired to do. This is about to come full circle back to where criticism of management is a one way ticket to a darn near worthless proverb.

DC

[standles]

Well that's just plain wrong. They need to retrain whoever did that rube goldberg... there's not a single piece of bailing wire in it. How can you do proper redneck engineering without any bailing wire?
Tiger

Bailing wire.. They weren't even sophisticated enough to throw in some duct tape.

I hope OSHA doesn't visit soon (chair)

[keithorr]

Personally, I like it. Gets the job done. I used to rag on an old boss because he would never spend money to fix things up. Everything was bailing wire and duct tape. Now I have my own shop.
As long as it's safe.
Not sure what the logic of the original design was. I would want to know that first.

[Geof]

Personally, I like it. Gets the job done. I used to rag on an old boss because he would never spend money to fix things up. Everything was bailing wire and duct tape. Now I have my own shop.
As long as it's safe.
Not sure what the logic of the original design was. I would want to know that first.

You are correct but when the OSHA guy comes in unexpectedly it can require a bit of fancy footwork and delaying tactics until your guys have dismantled things. And even if it is safe if it is not conventional or in agreement with original design or code or some other pettifogging regulation and it happens to be seen after an accident you can have serious problems.

[william1970]

I've been to three county fair's and one goat ****'in but I aint never seen no **** like that!