[landslide1]

I've been having issues with drip feeding my machine.
some weeks it works fine, other weeks it just wont accept the auto button.

I'm leaning towards button failure because last time I got the auto mode to light up, I found I had to push the button in the upper left corner for it to come on. if I pushed the button in the middle nothing happened.

that was a few weeks ago and now it doesn't matter where I push it wont light up. it makes the same click all the other buttons make and "feels" ok.

whats the best way to rule out that the button has a problem?

[tc429]

if its a zero/membrane panel, hold auto and single block(i think- anyways the top 2 buttons on the left column). all lights will blink 7 times, then any keypress will light the button(nothing output to the machine). cycle power to return to normal.

the matrixed panes use dgn 20 or so for the 'bit' marker, and 3 bits in dgn 22 for the byte adder...byte adder 000=292, 001=293,thru 111=299, the the bit in dgn 20. the leds are at 242-249, the decoded keys at 292-299. I have a easier to read drawing of the panel, ill try to dig up later. pretty sure 292.0= auto button, so 20.0 should change to 1 when auto hit- edit i think is 293.0, 20.0 will also be 1 when its hit...if those are ok, look for a stuck bit in the byte adders at 22- should be 000 for auto, 001 for edit.

[landslide1]

thanks for quick response

I tried your trick. unfortunately I think I misled you by referring to the "auto" button.

my system is 0m-a so I have a remot button with a line saying auto mode between the remot and midi.
I tried holding these two buttons down but nothing happened.

I checked dgn20 it flashes to 1 with button presses midi flashes dgn20.0
dgn22 sets to different values depending on the buttons pushed.

the remot button doesn't trigger any response in dgn20 as most buttons do. but nor dose the teach button so maybe that's normal?

[tc429]

got a pic of your op panel?

I shoulda said hold those two buttons while booting up, just reread what i typed...on the small op panels its the left column, upper two buttons held during boot up to put into test mode- its in the maintenance manual somewhere, ill see if i can find it. lots of oems use oddball membranes, keys might be in different locations- but the top left keys should always be test. I have the bigger panel on my mill in the garage, I'd check it to verify the large panel,but blew a fuse a couple hours ago- think my z drive popped again...Im running it on 110 volts, and it does fine- but my z drive card is in bad shape, have had to repair it several times before...really need to get a new drive for it

[landslide1]

mine is a bit strange it seems reversed compared to most op membranes I have seen.
Attachment 207744

[tc429]

hold 'home' and 'x+' at bootup to put in test mode- Im 99.9999% sure they all use the same interface board.

[landslide1]

yep you were correct!

held them down on boot and the buttons all flashed.

I didn't have enough time to find the diagnostics associated with the remot button but it lit up when pressed.

I turned the machine off and back on to reset the key check, and low and behold the remot button worked! the button has been unresponsive for the last few days so I I'm at a loss to whats causing the issue.

looks like there is still a gremlin in the system but I may have a way of waking up the remot button if it isn't responding.

[jimmy111]

I have the same panels. Sometimes they get moisture inside of them between the 2 pieces of plastic and either don't work at all or stick on.
You have to take apart the panel and clean them out. It is not very difficult. Just takes a little time.

[tc429]

if you pull the membrane off(usually destroys it) and take the keyboard out (all the little red keys fall out) and desolder the bad key, 9 out of 10 times there will be yellowish corrosion in the 3 little triangular cutouts on the bottom of the switch, making a weak connection to the poorly coated traces underneath it. I used to fix them often, but had a couple fail elsewhere- 'not worth the risk'...I am a packrat, try to keep/fix everything- but those boards are only around 300 apiece, no justification to fix any more- i toss them out. the problem in my opinion is these keys switch ground to a transistor input- requires only about half a meg to trigger it... imo they shoulda had a couple k ohms load resistors on them- i just dont trust them once they show any signs of corrosion anymore...

some of the really old ones had white keys attached to the switches, instead of the seperate red inserts- those were a lot more reliable for some reason.

if the membrane plate is removable from the panel, you can take it apart without destroying the membrane- just lay the panel face down and remove the keyboard screws- but usually they are glued to a non-removeable plate, and I cant think of any way to hold the red keys in place if its upright...

[landslide1]

thanks for the advice.

I actually pulled the panel apart on the weekend to see if there were any obvious issues. it looks like my machine has had some replacements over the years as the membrane panel was easy to remove and was in good condition. I could see the little red buttons and pushed a few. luckily they didn't fall out.
it does look like a time consuming job to get at the actual keyboard pcb. the main control board is over the top of the key pcb and looks like I'll have to remove a few bit's and peices just to get at it.