[EliTheIceMan]

Hello all, first post here. I am looking to spend a maximum of $4k USD on a laser mainly for cutting and etching acrylic averaging 1/8"/3mm but up to 1/4" or whatever it can handle above that. My research has landed me at the FSL 5th gen and the Gweike LG500 both with 20x12" work areas. I have heard many people say FSL has a horrible customer service rep (but have read far fewer actual stories) but I like the small size and weight of the machine as I work from home which is currently an apartment. I also really like the removable bottom so it can be set onto large pieces of wood. Finally, I really like the look of their software. The LG500 avoids FSL's bad rep and I have so far, heard nothing but good things about Gweike. This machine has the advantage of being a 60w over a 40w and is currently coming with a free spare tube. The machine also comes with the blower, air pump, and water pump which the FSL does not. Also Gweike makes the $200 chiller a very temping accessory as I was already contemplating building an unchilled closed loop system for the FSL at at a cost of at least $200. I would like to ask the community about their opinions of these machines, the soundness of my various reasonings, and to see if I missed any unexpected costs for the Gweike.

The FSL model is pretty cut and dry with the options and pricing and comes out very near my $4k budget after sourcing the compressor and blower locally.

The LG500 is a bit more complicated. First off, the accessories.
I figure motor Z table is a bit pointless considering the shallow desktop nature of the machine. How exactly is the Z manually adjusted in the LG500?
The red dot seems to be a pretty important accessory to me but I feel their $100 price tag for a laser diode stuck to the side of the head is very steep and something I could add for <$10.
Rotary attachment is something I also figure I could fairly easily make since it appears to simply be a stepper connected to some aux output. As long as the software can handle modifying the stepper speed/travel parameters to account for different steps/rotation or wheel size? It would make a fun first project to make one out of acrylic.
The small chiller seems like a good investment at $200. I'm not sure if a bucket of water is sufficient for a 60w machine?

Price wise, I was quoted 2600 for the machine and 790 for to door delivery to the middle of the USA. I was informed the only additional cost is import duty which I believe to be 2.4%? This puts a total estimated to door cost of $3657. Does this sound right?

So to condense it all down it seems like I would get a 60W (with free spare) for a few hundred less than a 40W which can be put on top of big stuff (I do have a one off project where this would be very useful but I have been getting by with a jigsaw )

My final questions are regarding Gweike's software side of things. I have been having a hard time finding any information on this except that they have a simple drawing package which is not very good. I do all my designs in Inkscape and it is really important to me that I can treat the laser like a printer and just specify what color does what speed and power. Does the Gweike support this?

I apologize in advanced as, most likely, some of my questions have been answered elsewhere.

If there are any other machine suggestions to fit this budget, I would love to hear them.

I have bolded the main questions.

Thank you in advance for your help!

[Bigbird48]

My advise would be to go for the LG500 and stay away from FSL, check this out.
CO2 Laser Engraving Machine with auto focus, 60W, 20? X 12? | Automation Technology Inc
LG500 for $3200 right here in Mid USA

- - - Updated - - -

My advise would be to go for the LG500 and stay away from FSL, check this out.
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/laser-engraving/co2-laser-engraving-machine-60w
LG500 for $3200 right here in Mid USA

[Bec Weir]

Google FSE and do a search on here, and the problems people have had with them before deciding to part with your hard earned money

[fixtureman1]

I did buy my LG500 from Automation Technologies and it comes with everything to get you started. I wish he had the next bigger one there when I was buying mine. They did some test cuts for me while I was there and loaded it up I was there just one day but learned a lot.

[charliex]

I'd avoid FSL too, we've been having someone with an FSL laser coming and using our wklaser/gweike LC900n while they get their FSL sorted out and it's been months for them. They paid as much or more for a much smaller and capable machine.

I got the LC900n in for <$4K shipped from wklaser. i forget what the import duty was , but our broker fee was about 700$

The red dot is useful, yeah you can add your own for under a $100, auto focus doesn't seem to be, the chiller works fine for us and is less messy than a bucket o' water, never had a problem with it.

I don't recall seeing a printer driver for LaserCut which is the software you get, you can export from inkscape then use LaserCut to engrave or cut though, we do that all the time.

I dont know what the current version is, but i swapped out the 5.3 with a 5.5 version, i found on the web, and its been working fine.

[travellerw]

You might want to look into a larger laser. With the prices you have shown, you should be able to get a 700 sized laser for the same price (or a tiny bit more) than the 500 sized one. Remember, shipping, brokerage, ect are the same on a 700 sizes as a 500 sized.

I'm willing to bet you could get a 700 sized with an 80W tube for $300 - $400 more than the 500 sized G. Wieke. E-mail them and ask. Their service is awesome..

[EliTheIceMan]

Thank you everyone for your responses so far. I was leaning toward the Gweike, I think I'm sold brand wise.

Regarding the Automation Tech Inc machine, it does not say anywhere that it is a Gweike and also looks much different than the picture of the LG500 on WK's site. Can anyone shed some light on this? I personally like the look of the one Gweike's site.

The LC900 no longer seems to be available plus it looks like you, charlie, had several (minor) problems with it upon arrival. I also don't think I want to go bigger at the present moment. I may be moving before the laser even gets here but where I am now I need to get it up 2.5 flights of stairs!

How is a image imported into LaserCut from Inkscape? Do you import it as a vector still and then you can choose colors for power and such? I would think if you have to convert to bitmap that you will lose some precision. I just don't want the workflow to be a big pain.

An idea just popped into my head. Maybe this should be a totally different thread. It might also be likely that no one here works in this industry being a CNC forum and all but I was wondering if a 60w laser could be used for soldering? The first 16 seconds of this video show what I mean using solder paste. (The rest has a robotic solder applicator.) I am thinking focusing would be a bit of a PITA as the beam size is fairly important. Would the far (or is it near?) IR of the beam be able to heat lead/tin?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnyB9btlhS8

Thanks all! I have not made any final decisions yet so any more info is appreciated!

[charliex]

yeah we had a couple of small issues, nothing major , a couple of hours and it was sorted out. i'd buy it again, and i'd imagine you'll see similar issues on other cheap lasers, and my buddy bought one at the same time. his is still going too. i though i saw the lc900n on the site recently, but maybe not. better the devily ou know and all that

you can either import an bitmap and it'll halftone it, or you can do a vector relief style.

you can't laser solder unfortunately., though it'd be awesome.

[EliTheIceMan]

you can't laser solder unfortunately., though it'd be awesome.

Is this a limitation of the laser itself or are you just referring to the software not supporting it?

[charliex]

wrong type of laser, you want a diode laser, or not as good a YAG. the wavelength of the CO2 limits the energy absorption , it reflects off the metal but is much better absorbed by the carrier, it risks damaging the pcb itself.

[Exsecratio]

I am thinking focusing would be a bit of a PITA as the beam size is fairly important. Would the far (or is it near?) IR of the beam be able to heat lead/tin?

Heat control and focus would make it close to impossible with a hobby laser. A CO2 laser will do it (pump enough watts and CO2 lasers will heat or cut just about anything) but not in the quality range of home user machines.

The small chiller seems like a good investment at $200

The small chiller isn't a chiller, it's a loop of copper tube with a fan playing on it, it can only cool to the environments ambient temperature so if it's 30 degrees outside your water will only go to 30 degrees at best.

cheers

Dave

[Bigbird48]

@ Iceman "Regarding the Automation Tech Inc machine, it does not say anywhere that it is a Gweike and also looks much different than the picture of the LG500 on WK's site. Can anyone shed some light on this? I personally like the look of the one Gweike's site."

If you look closely at the spec of each machine there almost identical. The color and case may be different so Automation can resell. I would call Then and ask but I'm( pretty sure )there the same machine. Like I said you can check with the by phone or email. That says you all the hassle of trying to import one yourself.

[Exsecratio]

Looking at the laser head and mirror mounts I'd say that's a Shenhui that AT are selling. Weike tend to go for black anodise and flat mirror holders, shens go for red or gold anodise with tubed mirror holders.

Pretty much all Chinese machines use the same, or a variation of the electronics inside them. The rails etc are all usually PMI or suchlike and the controllers are Leetro (Step Servo) with one of around 4 different mirror holders and laser heads. Extractors, blowers and pumps all tend to be the same Hilea stuff or generic Chinese made.
RDCam is just a modified version of lasercut sold to OEM's.

Nothing wrong with Shenhui machines and they have great aftersales service.

Other than variations on a theme there hasn't really been anything new in the gantry laser world for around 5 years. Machines get more reliable, bugs get fixed, tubes get better but no real innovations that make any one machine stand out above the rest.

There are surprisingly few far eastern laser manufacturers , most are just resellers of rebadged stuff or drop shippers in the west.

cheers

Dave

[fixtureman1]

When I bought it they told me it was a Gweike machine and one of the Gweike girls said it was their machine. I did get a quote from Gweike and the LG500 looks just like the machine that I have.

[lasertube]

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[Fotdot]

Hey EliTheIceMan-

Its been a few weeks and I'm wondering if you followed thru with the LG500. I'm looking at that unit as well and love the general feedback everyone has given Gwieke.

[EliTheIceMan]

I did not pull the trigger on anything yet. I sort of backed off of the laser idea for now. I looked at getting a used domestic Zing 16 or VLS2.30. I like their smaller size and air cooling. I was hoping I could get one for around 4k but it looks like 1 year old ones go for more around 5.6k+. The only thing I'm sure of at the moment is that I will just be going back to Ponoko for now and putting this idea on the shelf for a few months.

[Hurricane21]

IceMan,

You might want to consider our New Storm Laser 22 x14 bed with a 35W tube. We will also be launching our Kick Starter this week and there will be some at $1995 which includes the exhaust fan, CW3000 that can be upgraded to the CW5000, and air compressor. The Storm also has pass through doors from front to back and on the left side for larger items like baseball bats. All of our lasers come with a full 2 year warranty that covers everything including the laser tube.

30W CO2 Laser 21.5 x 13.75 inches

Thank you for your time and consideration.

John

[CubedRoot]

I have almost the same exact questions as OP. I am looking at getting into laser engraving, possibly as a small business. My main focus would be to engrave custom images onto rocker switches from Carling Tech and APEM. But I would also like to be able to engrave large aircraft panels as well (made of sheet aluminum). I would of course use the engraver for other things as well.

I was really leaning towards Full Spectrum 5th generation due to the removable floor, which would allow me to easily engrave a large panel by doing it in "sections". I have about a $5000 budget to spend.

Like the OP, I hear alot of folks hammering on FSL, but can't really find any stories or specific instances to read up on.

I almost bought a Gen 5 today, until I read this forum. Can someone point me in the right direction as to what to even read up on to learn about which is the best laser for my use case? Are FSL really horrible quality and support?

[EliTheIceMan]

@^(1/3)
I also liked the FSL for the removable bottom. I am currently building a pinball machine from scratch and though it would be great for cutting some slots and holes (with a few passes) in the play field or to precisely mark where to drill/paint/place various things.

I think with FSL the quality is not that much worse that any other Chinese rebrand but their service and the way they treat their customers is pretty bad. Hurricane's 2 year warranty including the tube is a big draw so I'm really interested in the storm. One big unfortunate thing is that Hurricane does appear to have print drivers with their newer software but they will not be including that with the storm and instead it comes with a dedicated software like the Gweikes where you have to import to use something else. This is really unfortunate when they do have drivers which work with their other machines. I could be wrong on this though.