[CNC_Kid]

hi all,
i am looking to buy some CAD software. i am only a hobbyist but some of my stuff may turn into a production run. i saw some SolidWorks videos and that's some cool software, i really like the Animation module.

I dont really need CAM because i dont have any CNC machines currently, i might build a CNC plasma table in the future.

i used Rhino 3D in the past but never became fluent with that software.

i am a quick learner. SolidWorks (which i dont know they give any discount for hobby use) is a tad too complex and too much $$ for my use. i can however spend a few hundred $$ for some good CAD software.

any suggestions?

[datac]

any suggestions?

Lots and lots of options out there. You might want to start with 2d Cad to get your feet wet. MOST newbies will end up doing CNC work that is generally not 3d anyhow, so drawing it in 3d is not something that is necessary to do.

You'll find a lot of people recommend Draftsight.... I happen to like Autosketch over that, but be aware, Autosketch's days are numbered. Autosketch was a program that Autodesk purchased from someone else which always led me to believe they just wanted to obtain it in order to keep people in their family of products. I also think that they slowed down development on it because it actually was an easier to use product than their Autocad Lite version.

If you want both the 2d and 3d worlds but found Rhino a touch much to understand, Jump into ViaCad V8. Many many years ago when I could not afford much, I started with a program that Ashlar had released called DrawingBoard. It used the same drawing tools that were in Ashlars main programs and far, FAR advanced over anything else out there.

The interesting part is at the time, Ashlar was licensing this drawing methodology from the same developer who provides ViaCad. As such, it might be the best bang for the buck, and it also includes drawing tools/aids and methods that many programs still do not employ. ViaCad v8 has the same "push/pull" methods you find in programs like Sketchup, but much easier to figure out. I find it the fastest program I have for making very quick 3d drawings, and I have spent time with much more expensive programs over the years including Rhino.

Its got a few quirks.... but its under $100 and gets the job done pretty well.

In that your a newcomer, you might not find the toolbars in Viacad to be a little strange as I do..... I wish they had the ability for the end user to do a little more when it comes to customizing it. But then again, I feel the same way about V-Carve, Aspire, Alibre..... I mean, whats with using all that screen space for these large Honkin tool bars ? This whole "Ribbon" thing is a joke !

[blowlamp]

Another +1 from me for ViaCAD 2d/3d - great value for money.
One more to add to the list is MoI 3d, which has a very nice user interface and is well worth the money.
Both of these programs are well supported by their authors too.
I use them alongside one another very successfully.


Martin.

[CNC_Kid]

just for clarity, i just never got fluent with Rhino 3D (i have old v3.0 version). I think SolidWorks is cool and all, but will likely be an unpleasant learning curve for me.

is the ViaCAD the one from PunchCAD (Compare ViaCAD | CAD Design | Architectural Software | Drawing Software | PunchCAD.com). i would likely buy the Pro version.

also, will ViaCAD allow me to split parts? as example, i may built a 3D part using all flat materials (like a heim joint bracket) but then i would want to break the parts and feed the design into a plasma table so i can then weld the parts together, etc. more of a 2D thing but i would like to have 3D model, etc.

do they really charge $99 for new versions of ViaCAD as they are released?

also, is ViaCAD popular? i noticed their forums have latest posts back in 2011?

[awerby]

Take a look at Cubify Design (which used to be Alibre Design before that company was bought by 3D Systems). It's a parametric solids modeling program like Solidworks, but a lot less complicated (and expensive). It can output 2d drawings as well as 3d meshes. You can download a trial version and see how well you get along with it: Cubify Collections - Cubify Design 3D design software There are tutorial videos you can watch here: Geomagic Design (formerly Alibre) - YouTube They cover more advanced versions as well as Cubify, but a lot of it is relevant.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[datac]

Indeed, it will do anything you would ever desire when it comes to plasma.... draw a 3d model for a visual review, use 2d DXF exports to cut stuff. Its got all the bells and whistles regarding layers so you can put things each in its own spot until you want to utilize a particular portion. I've had great results with its DXF in and out abilities as well.

Regards "PRO"..... well, I am not sure why, but I bought Pro once and it had less of the latest features in it than the cheaper retail version. On top of that, the things they listed in pro were not exactly the most important to me. So I only purchase the latest retail release that is NOT Pro.

One of the things I have troubles with is getting it to flatten a 3d design into a 2D drawing.... Sometimes it works well, other times it does not. But it is easy enough to draw parts with 2d entities, leave them on a layer of their own and extrude those entities into 3d parts. Its an incredible program for the money..... if you can live without push/pull techniques, buy an older version.... like v6 on ebay for peanuts and give it a whirl.

One thing you will find out is that regards Cad and Cam software, eventually you will settle in to what you can tolerate based on what you can afford. I don't care what the program is or how much it costs, I can usually find a few places where I have to ask "what were they thinking"? with this or that feature or ergonomics. In other words, I don't think there is a perfect program anywhere.

What you can can find is that one program has this certain set of great features and a few poor ones, and the next program fixes the few poor ones but completely misses out on the great ones of the first program ! You can't win, and if you TRY to get developers to LOOK at what they could do, they usually just lumber on in their own world, ignoring what other programs can do and or how they do it.

For the $99 Viacad charges, its pretty dang good in comparison... I can certainly create my type of stuff faster in it than Rhino. Oh, and the comment about Moi ?? I have that too.... great little 3d program..... NOT really what you want for Plasma work though....

[CNC_Kid]

VIACAD, Cubify, ??? there are so many programs out there.

just for clarity. my ref to plasma table was just an example. to start, i will CAD a few small parts and then have some CNC shop or person cut it for me. but i would likely start doing more with it, maybe a real CNC machine in my garage, etc

in the example video that PunchCAD has, some of the advanced feature look like i would use them, eg; the pull a surface, and ability to segment a surface and then manipulate just that piece of the surface.
Compare ViaCAD | CAD Design | Architectural Software | Drawing Software | PunchCAD.com

now Cubify, i have no idea about this item. is it easier than ViaCAD? what about imports and exports, ViaCAD can open or export some of the other popular formats.

i guess i am looking for the intuitive GUI that has lots of good features, one that has good public support (forums) and a bunch of video tutorials, etc. $300 for the program is not an issue for me, etc.

one of the cool features i saw in SolidWorks demo video is that the software will "locate" parts to each other, like moving a bolt to a hole and it snaps into the hole. question is, can any of the programs do "auto" task? eg; if i carve out a solid cylinder from a plate and i then want the carve out to be a pin, can i apply a "pin profile" so that it automatically trims the pin dia down a few thousandths so that the pin can fit (real world fit) into the hole.

2D view of 3D part is a needed feature. some sort of animation module would also be nice so i can make short video of part in motion, etc.

[mmoe]

I use Viacad pretty extensively and it's good software. You really don't need the "Pro" version unless you are a power user. The 2d/3d V8 release is about 95% of what the Pro version is and it would take you so long to outgrow it that a newer version of "Pro" would be out before you could even use those features. IMHO, if you're going to start with Viacad, start with 2d/3d V8 and then upgrade later. It won't cost you any more and you may find, as I have, that the Pro version is just more than you need anyways.

Otherwise, I also find Bonzai 3d to be an excellent package and I will probably be using it more than Viacad once I'm completely up to speed with it. If I were buying for myself today and had the same level of knowledge in any program (or lack there of), Bonzai would be my CAD of choice. It's like Viacad and Alibre/Geomagic with a dash of Sketchup, though IMHO seems to be a lot more sturdy with demanding files than any of those. It's essentially like Form Z lite. It has an unroll/unfold feature that you might find useful from your OP in that you could take 3d objects and flatten them into a part that could be then split into multiple flat parts for cutting and then assembling back to the 3d part. It also seems, so far, reasonably user friendly and relatively easy to learn. Viacad is a bit more intuitive perhaps, but not by a whole lot. Both Viacad and Bonzai have pretty good video tutorials available for learning their operations. The price of Bonzai 3d is a bit more than Viacad, which is really it's only downside, but relative to other CAD systems is a really good value at $500.

[mmoe]

VIACAD, Cubify, ??? there are so many programs out there.

just for clarity. my ref to plasma table was just an example. to start, i will CAD a few small parts and then have some CNC shop or person cut it for me. but i would likely start doing more with it, maybe a real CNC machine in my garage, etc

in the example video that PunchCAD has, some of the advanced feature look like i would use them, eg; the pull a surface, and ability to segment a surface and then manipulate just that piece of the surface.
Compare ViaCAD | CAD Design | Architectural Software | Drawing Software | PunchCAD.com

now Cubify, i have no idea about this item. is it easier than ViaCAD? what about imports and exports, ViaCAD can open or export some of the other popular formats.

i guess i am looking for the intuitive GUI that has lots of good features, one that has good public support (forums) and a bunch of video tutorials, etc. $300 for the program is not an issue for me, etc.

one of the cool features i saw in SolidWorks demo video is that the software will "locate" parts to each other, like moving a bolt to a hole and it snaps into the hole. question is, can any of the programs do "auto" task? eg; if i carve out a solid cylinder from a plate and i then want the carve out to be a pin, can i apply a "pin profile" so that it automatically trims the pin dia down a few thousandths so that the pin can fit (real world fit) into the hole.

2D view of 3D part is a needed feature. some sort of animation module would also be nice so i can make short video of part in motion, etc.

Cubify is a bit more complicated to learn that Viacad, but it's not that bad. It's more similar to Solidworks in terms of how you use it than it is to Viacad. Cubify has somewhat limited export options unless you pay more for the additional formats plug-in. By the time you do that, there is a whole lot of competition in the same price range, including Bonzai 3d. Viacad will import export a ton of formats and it is one of it's strengths. Bonzai will also import/export a wide variety of formats with very good controls over the output parameters.

I don't think that any of these software packages will fit an allowance for a pin into a hole, but it's pretty simple to do so manually. They will create a pin or locate a pin to align with the holes off of snaps, and Viacad may do this the best among the bunch, at which point you could specify a diameter/radius that has the allowance removed or added depending on what kind of fit you want. It would not be a difficult task in any of them, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Rendering is not something I've done much with. I think most of these packages require considerable additional expense for animation. In the case of Viacad, I think you have to go up to the "Shark FX" level, which is the $1800 top of the line product before you get animation. With Bonzai 3d, it may be that you have to go up to the full Form Z package to get that feature, which is around $1400 with the rendering add on for realistic light conditions. Compared to Solidworks, those are still very affordable, but certainly not necessarily a hobby budget anymore. With Bonzai, you can upgrade to Form Z later without loosing any money (the upgrade is the difference in price between the two), so like Viacad, it may make more sense to start with the basic package and upgrade once you've learned it well enough to decide if you really need to upgrade. If you have little 3d modeling experience, it could realistically be 6 months to a year before you are actually to the point where animating things is even worth doing. I'd focus more on learning the modeling aspects first, then follow that up with the animation once you are an expert at the basic modeling strategies.

[blowlamp]

VIACAD, Cubify, ??? there are so many programs out there.

just for clarity. my ref to plasma table was just an example. to start, i will CAD a few small parts and then have some CNC shop or person cut it for me. but i would likely start doing more with it, maybe a real CNC machine in my garage, etc

in the example video that PunchCAD has, some of the advanced feature look like i would use them, eg; the pull a surface, and ability to segment a surface and then manipulate just that piece of the surface.
Compare ViaCAD | CAD Design | Architectural Software | Drawing Software | PunchCAD.com

now Cubify, i have no idea about this item. is it easier than ViaCAD? what about imports and exports, ViaCAD can open or export some of the other popular formats.

i guess i am looking for the intuitive GUI that has lots of good features, one that has good public support (forums) and a bunch of video tutorials, etc. $300 for the program is not an issue for me, etc.

one of the cool features i saw in SolidWorks demo video is that the software will "locate" parts to each other, like moving a bolt to a hole and it snaps into the hole. question is, can any of the programs do "auto" task? eg; if i carve out a solid cylinder from a plate and i then want the carve out to be a pin, can i apply a "pin profile" so that it automatically trims the pin dia down a few thousandths so that the pin can fit (real world fit) into the hole.

2D view of 3D part is a needed feature. some sort of animation module would also be nice so i can make short video of part in motion, etc.

Do check out MoI - it is very powerful and quite easy to learn. The minimalistic looking toolset is intended to be like that to reduce screen clutter. You will find that each tool works with curves, surfaces and solids and this is how the clutter is avoided.


Martin.

[CNC_Kid]

what about BobCAD v26 CAD ? how is this vs say ViaCAD ?

[mmoe]

what about BobCAD v26 CAD ? how is this vs say ViaCAD ?

I use Bobcad for the CAM and it's perhaps one of the best values in CAM systems out there. Some people like the CAD side of Bobcad, but I'm not one of them. It has all the features you need to do quite sophisticated modeling, but the way that it's done feels to me like it's still back in the 80's. Again, there are many who actually like Bobcad's CAD side, so obviously it's always a personal preference thing.

Otherwise, I could go into great detail about why Bobcad is an excellent choice if you are looking for CAM software. There are many good CAM products out there and I've used just about all of them, but when it comes to a mature product that is very powerful, Bobcad provides a level of capability that generally isn't found until you spend about 3 times as much as Bobcad costs. The question is then how much capability do you really want or need. Many users only need basic CAM capabilities, and there are definitely less expensive options out there that do less. I highly recommend Bobcad, but with the caveat that it depends a bit on what you are planning to do with it. You said you plan to do more than plasma work, but I'd want to know a bit more about the things you plan to do before I'd say it's the best product for your needs. If most of what you do is going to be flat stock cut to shape, Bobcad is probably overkill. If you plan to do 3d mold making or machining of 3d parts, in conjunction with 2d operations, then Bobcad is perhaps the best value for that combination.

[CNC_Kid]

mmoe,
my 1st few small parts will be 3D parts and will need to be cut on CNC machine (likely a multi function CNC lathe). i have a nice plasma cutter that i would like to use on a CNC table, but i am just not there yet.

w/ the feedback thus far i am leaning towards the $99 ViaCAD (i need to do some homework on the Pro version to see exactly what feature it has over the $99 version).

[CNC_Kid]

hmm, viaCAD v8 has been around since 2011? no newer versions for two years? and why is there no email for sales support? even if it were $2 software i would not buy it if pre-sales & post-sales support is hard to get. whats the deal with viaCAD support?


i just tried submitting a ticket through the Encore support page. i hit "submit" and it returns an error page.

software may be good, but it looks like support is lacking in many ways. not what i like when paying for software.

[CNC_Kid]

is this review accurate?
http://cad-software-review.toptenreviews.com/

wondering if TurboCAD Deluxe for $129 is a better option for me?

what does the $99 viaCAD have that T CAD Deluxe does not?

[mmoe]

is this review accurate?
CAD Software Review 2014 | Best CAD Design Software | Modeling Software - TopTenREVIEWS

wondering if TurboCAD Deluxe for $129 is a better option for me?

what does the $99 viaCAD have that T CAD Deluxe does not?

I've had TurboCAD Pro and used it for quite a long time. Turbocad is not a bad program at all, but it's a bit more of a dated program in how it works. For someone who is used to older style CAD systems, it's probably the better choice. For someone new to CAD, I think ViaCAD is a bit easier to use. They seem to think ViaCAD is less intuitive, but having used both extensively I would beg to differ.

Turbocad has some unique features to it that I do really like, but if you go with Turbocad, get Turbocad Pro. There are significant enough differences that the Pro version is really worthwhile. ViaCAD is not that much different going to Pro, and I think for the $99 category offers a lot more. The review calls Turbocad a parametric design system, but unless I've completely missed something (and I've used Turbocad up through V20), I would not categorize it as such. I've always called it a semi-parametric system and feel that it was one of the early systems that implemented parametric style features going back years ago, but it does not offer what I think most would consider the staple of parametric modeling which is a parent/child tree where you can make changes to a specific parameter and have all the subsequent operations automatically update to reflect that change to an earlier stage of the model. If you just go by the checklist, Turbocad Deluxe looks quite impressive, but if you are familiar with the way that the features really work in depth, Viacad offers quite a lot more powerful features that are IMHO much easier to actually use at the $99 price tag. Turbocad Pro has some excellent features such as the constraints system and a pretty decent snaps system (though Viacad's is better), but to use Turbocad effectively will take much more effort to learn. Viacad is reasonably stable, but one advantage Turbocad does have is that it is exceptionally stable, more so than Viacad. I have Turbocad Pro in an older version (I'm also familiar with the current version), but I do not use it at all anymore, which I think says a lot about Viacad and Bonzai 3d compared to Turbocad. When it comes to 3d modeling, that's another area where Turbocad just isn't very competitive either. It's got all the tools you think you would need, but there are significant differences between Turbocad and other products as to how well those 3d tools work. There are many, many cases where Viacad will produce things like fillets where Turbocad just can't do it, even the most current version of Turbocad.

The best thing to do is download the various demos and just try figuring them out. If you find one that feels natural to learn, go with that one. No two people learn CAD the same way, so I think it's important that you choose something that speaks to you.

[mmoe]

hmm, viaCAD v8 has been around since 2011? no newer versions for two years? and why is there no email for sales support? even if it were $2 software i would not buy it if pre-sales & post-sales support is hard to get. whats the deal with viaCAD support?


i just tried submitting a ticket through the Encore support page. i hit "submit" and it returns an error page.

software may be good, but it looks like support is lacking in many ways. not what i like when paying for software.

Support is admittedly not that great with Viacad, but their phone support does work pretty well. The number that you need to call is in the punch cad forums, so if you ever need the number just let me know and I could forward the link. The thing is that with Viacad you really shouldn't need support. There are only a couple of issues that people seem to have. You do not want to use it on a Windows 8 system, as most have had problems there (not surprising since Windows 8 didn't exist when it was developed, and many CAD systems are in the same boat). The other thing is that in Windows 7, you need to set it to run as an administrator for the first time you use it, otherwise the activation code will not take and it will ask for it again every time. Once the activation code is accepted, you no longer need to run as an administrator.

Outside of those two issues, there really shouldn't be anything that you need from support. The manual is reasonably thorough and there are plenty of tutorials built in. My 9 year old and 11 year old (now 10 and 12) learned to use Viacad this past summer and both were able to teach themselves from the tutorials with very little computer experience between them, and certainly no CAD experience. They just did each of the tutorials and had great success doing so.

There is a new version of Viacad Pro coming out soon, but I'm not sure it's going to be a major upgrade just yet. The Mac version will be significantly better since it's going to be 64 bit, but it so far looks like the Windows users like myself will not be getting the 64 bit upgrade just yet. This is probably my only complaint about Viacad and I think it's the only thing holding it back from being great software. It's very good, but until there are less limitations in the memory usage, it will not be able to do the really complex work that I sometimes throw at it. That's where Bonzai 3d seems to have a pretty good edge.

If you go with Viacad, the 2d/3d version is the best start. As I said before, you can upgrade to Pro and it won't cost you any more in total to do that later when you know 2d/3d well enough to determine if the extra tools are useful. For most, I would say they are not necessary.

[datac]

Its $99 (tops... buy an older version on ebay for what... $29 ??)

They give you a decent upgrade deal when new versions come out (unlike others who hold you hostage)

It's no where near as antiquated ergonomically as the other two mentioned so far (and there is no shortage of really, really BAD functioning Cad programs)

It wont be your last $99 spent on cad (If your serious about this hobby, you will spend more than you ever thought you would),

I would NOT buy the pro (I made that mistake already),

Did I mention I would NOT buy the Pro ? (it always has LESS features in it that I use than the cheapy version)

It is quite easily the EASIEST program to create things in a 3d drawings space I ever came across hands down,

I'd wouldn't recommend anything else for a newbie regards 3d drawing,

It's 2D side does not leave one wanting for anything... Its very easy and understandable,
(I used Viacads predecessors for years and only give up when OS's allowed more than the old 9 digit file name limit)

I still wonder if you really need 3d capability,
(Are you really going to machine 3d models ala STL or ? - because you also need a more specific CAM program for that end of it and you have not asked much about CAM)

Their forum isn't great, but its not a program that is hard to learn or create in,

I never called their support for anything, The built in help seems pretty good,

On a similar thought... I use a CNC control that has EXTREMELY low "forum activity". Its activity is LOW, because the program itself works so dang good, those of us who are users have nothing to talk about! And, the ergonomics of the development was laid out well enough that no one got "lost" in it. Can't say I find that in every cad program I have looked at over the years.....

And, finally, the ONLY complaint I have with it right now with Viacad is that my old XP PC died and I ended up with crappy, crappy, crappy Windows 8, and what makes it CRAPPY is that practically NONE of my investment in Cad/Cam over the years will run on it no matter what "compatibility" mode is tried. Because of that, I find myself back to making quick stuff with Autosketch instead (2d) until I sort this out. Bunch of Morons over there at MS.....

[CNC_Kid]

ok, viaCAD 8 trial installed. already it doesnt seem to work right.

basic cube draw using Block Diagonals tool. i select start point, then drag out the bottom surface, then drag up or down the Z axis, so while dragging on Z why does the location # for Z stay at zero, should it not simply follow my Z drag?
Attachment 216698

i dont need CAM right now. if i need CAM its for a CNC plasma table i will build as DIY. for parts that need CNC lathe and what-not i will send my file out to a shop to cut, etc.


i see now, cursor has to be right on the Z axis for the position to update while dragging. no that seems dumb, should be able to drag it in Z axis from anywhere and the program should indicate the Z location.

[mmoe]

ok, viaCAD 8 trial installed. already it doesnt seem to work right.

basic cube draw using Block Diagonals tool. i select start point, then drag out the bottom surface, then drag up or down the Z axis, so while dragging on Z why does the location # for Z stay at zero, should it not simply follow my Z drag?
Attachment 216698

i dont need CAM right now. if i need CAM its for a CNC plasma table i will build as DIY. for parts that need CNC lathe and what-not i will send my file out to a shop to cut, etc.


i see now, cursor has to be right on the Z axis for the position to update while dragging. no that seems dumb, should be able to drag it in Z axis from anywhere and the program should indicate the Z location.

It's working right. You created a cube, but now that the cube is done, you are not on the Z vertical position any more. If you move your cursor so that the snap catches the top corner of the cube, it will read the Z value of the top corner. If you are not snapped to the top corner of the cube, you are snapped to the work plane, which is at Z0.

If you are still in the process of making the cube, then it also doesn't really matter what the Z value is when you complete it. Being that the system is parametric, you can simply change the Z height value and the part will update accordingly. I usually just make a cube of random height, then give it the actual height by typing it in unless I am matching it to other geometry. If you are matching it to other geometry, the snaps will bring it to the correct height. Hope that makes sense.