[jonesturf]

I am in the process of purchasing a Boss 5 mill. The iron is in fantastic shape and was used very little. If it wasn't for the like new condition I might not even be considering this purchase. It's tooled up nice with the Kwikset 200 tool holders and a Kurt Vise and BP vise to get me going.

I have done my reading prior to posting this but this is my first CNC and I want to do it right and am looking for your help. Will be converting over for Mach 3 or LinuxCNC use. Initially I want to be able to utilize the original BP steppers to get me going but I want to be able to upgrade to servos later once this thing makes me money.

Things I need and what I'm currently thinking:
PSU - Keiling KL-7220 (saw it referenced on another post)
Drives - Gecko G203v (seems popular)
BOB - PMDX-134 (or similar)
VFD - Hitachi (I have 2 other Hitachis I am happy with. It does come with a really nice 3HP AC Tech that was used very little but it's setup for 3 phase and I don't have that in my shop so that will get sold to fund the new one.)

I have also seen referenced the Hillbilli BOB. Any reason why that's better for this than other BOBs? I also see guys have taken parts for the BP power supplies and made there own. I'm ok with doing this but I can't seem to find any info as all the old links are broken.

Looking for any suggestions on what to do with the intent of keeping cost down initially with the option to upgrade in the future. I know the resolution of these drives is only .001 currently but would like that to be better in the future as well. For now with what I have planned to do it will be fine. This will be used for making parts for resale in a home shop setting. Thanks in advance for your help.

[jonesturf]

Also wanted to mention I will be using a pretty decent quad core computer to power everything with plenty of RAM, video etc. Was also thinking about a smooth steeper but would that really be necessary with a powerful computer?

[jonesturf]

I think I want to use LinuxCNC. Was thinking about the PMDX-126 BOB. I also noticed the Mesa boards and they look nice too. I know if I got that route I won't be able to use Mach 3 but I'm thinking LinuxCNC should do it. I want to setup a spindle encoder for rigid tapping. I will be using a Hitachi VFD that has Modbus too. I also will be setting a 4th axis and maybe a 5th. What's a better BOB setup with what I want to do?

Also looking at power supplies. Looking into using original components from the BOSS like many others have done but if I decided to buy one would a Keling 5413 be enough considering the 4th and possibly 5th axis or would I need a 7212 or even a 7220? Using Gecko 203v's so the 70 volts from the 7220 would be better, right? Saw the 5413 being used in another thread that why I thought about that.

[jonesturf]

I also just realized I have 3 Glentek GM4020 DC Servos from a BP J Head TRAK CNC retrofit machine that work. Not using them currently. Would it be a good idea to use those motors instead of the huge BP steppers that came with the BOSS?

[cncbpt]

I used a Hillbilly BOB on my series 2
Its easy to hook up,uses original steppers and Mach3.
Doesn't get any easier or cheaper and it works great

[jonesturf]

I haven't been able to find one and anyways on of the boards are bad. Not sure which one and it might be something simple but I'm going retrofit.

Are older DC servos better than the original BP Boss steppers? They came from a 9x42 BP J head?

[HawkJET]

Are older DC servos better than the original BP Boss steppers?

It depends.... You will find that it is a royal PITA to make adapters for the motors and the timing pulleys. The original steppers had 'non-standard' shaft diameter and length. It is nontrivial to make a robust adapter. If that is within your capabilities, you may find it worthwhile since the old steppers can be improved upon.

I have a BOSS 3 and I will be replacing the original steppers with modern ones. I have not yet finished the shaft adapters, and they are a PITA. The original steppers work fine, but they have almost no advantage when micro-stepping and have limited torque (when compared to modern steppers).

[jonesturf]

Which steppers are you looking to upgrade too? I'm assuming you also gain some resolution from them over the old .001" resolution. That's really the only thing that concerns me but it should be fine for what I want to do for a while.

Figured I had them and they may be useful but the more i think about it I may just keep them on that machine and revive that as well. It's setup to be manual as well as CNC with the DC servos right now. It would really be a backup machine for jobs that don't fit on the Boss and the odd manual job I need to do. Guess I will just leave it alone.

Not against upgrading from the old Boss steppers to new ones at some point but for right now I just want to get this up and running.

[jonesturf]

Does anyone have any information on how to use the original power supply to make a new one? I know Bob Campbell has a nice document on making power supplies but his website is down and it's unavailable.

[HawkJET]

Which steppers are you looking to upgrade too? I'm assuming you also gain some resolution from them over the old .001" resolution. That's really the only thing that concerns me but it should be fine for what I want to do for a while.

I have some 800 oz-in 34 steppers (as I recall). The resolution is also a function of the motor driver. The stock motors will half step just fine if you use Geckos for example. I have Compumotor ZETA drives. They don't need a power supply and work off line voltage. If you use the existing motor drivers (as many do), you will be limited to .001" resolution.

I just want to get this up and running

I also suggest MACH3 rather than EMC2. I spent a week of 4 hour evenings trying to get it running to no avail. After giving up on EMC2, I then got MACH3 running in a couple hours. EMC2 has poor support, especially compared to MACH3. A small number of users have a lot of glitches with MACH3, but the vast majority are working fine.

[Shefron]

Does anyone have any information on how to use the original power supply to make a new one? I know Bob Campbell has a nice document on making power supplies but his website is down and it's unavailable.

Might be better to just buy a power supply off ebay. I managed to find a Lamba rail mount 24v/5A power supply for 30 dollars and converted the original 3phase transformer for the 70v power to the gecko drive. Below is a few examples of din mount power supplies.

Altech PS 12024 DIN Rail DC Power Supply 24V 5A | eBay

Or

IFM Electronic DN2012 Switched Mode 24VDC Power Supply 24V 5A DIN Mount | eBay


The original power supply should be easy to convert over to 24v but the space can be better spent for something else. Even my converted 70v power will be replaced sooner or later with a smaller compact unit.

[jonesturf]

No I was going to go with the Gecko 203v. I had read somewhere that even though the drivers allowed them to microstep the motor themselves (being old) really weren't able to so you would basically have about the same resolution as stock. If you upgraded to newer steppers that are better suited for microstepping you would get better resolution. Maybe I read it wrong. Half stepping to .0005" resolution would be good for me.

Ya I'm still up in the air. I like learning new things and I've been on the LinuxCNC forums reading every night but Mach might be the easier way to go. I wanted to save some money initially and also wanted the option of rigid tapping. If I were to go LinuxCNC the Mesa boards look awesome but I don't think work at all with Mach 3 so no going back. Appreciate the help.

[Shefron]

I have some 800 oz-in 34 steppers (as I recall). The resolution is also a function of the motor driver. The stock motors will half step just fine if you use Geckos for example. I have Compumotor ZETA drives. They don't need a power supply and work off line voltage. If you use the existing motor drivers (as many do), you will be limited to .001" resolution.
I also suggest MACH3 rather than EMC2. I spent a week of 4 hour evenings trying to get it running to no avail. After giving up on EMC2, I then got MACH3 running in a couple hours. EMC2 has poor support, especially compared to MACH3. A small number of users have a lot of glitches with MACH3, but the vast majority are working fine.

I would tend to agree with this assessment. The support is small but answers come quick on the forum. I still have my plasma table running mach3 but there is a limit to the amount of I/O with Mach3 unless your move into ESS (Ethernet smooth stepper) or expansion boards with pmdx. The cost gets up there.

[jonesturf]

Not a bad idea but what do I need the 24 volt for? I will have to see how much space I have but I should have plenty. Going to keep the CPU outside out of the box for now at least. Was also thinking about just buying a torodial transformer, rectifier and caps. That would save some space too.

[Shefron]

Not a bad idea but what do I need the 24 volt for? I will have to see how much space I have but I should have plenty. Going to keep the CPU outside out of the box for now at least. Was also thinking about just buying a torodial transformer, rectifier and caps. That would save some space too.

The boss5 has a pneumatic controlled brake for the spindle which is ran off a 24v solenoid plus all the switches can also use 12v or 24v if you want. Might has well go 24v so you can keep the spindle brake. Makes switching out tools a lot easier.

[jonesturf]

Oh ya I forgot about that. Crap...another expense. I haven't picked the machine up yet and I was thinking about that last night and what to do there. It looked like some guys removed them or maybe theirs were different versions of Boss that didn't have them.

What about the spindle speed? Is that the same 24volt pneumatic system? I planned on using a VFD and control the spindle speed in Mach/EMC2. Should I just get rid of that assembly? I know there were articles in HSM in 2003/2004 on refitting a BP Boss but I've only been able to track down the first issue of the series. All it had was cleanup and removal of components. I'm pretty sure they covered it. I know there is a lot of stuff online too with conversions but I don't remember anyone talking about that. I will have to go back through my bookmarks (like 30 of them) and reread some stuff.

What about the lube system and coolant systems? Were they 24 volt too or something else? Sorry for all the questions. Probably make a lot more sense once it's in front of me.

[jonesturf]

I would tend to agree with this assessment. The support is small but answers come quick on the forum. I still have my plasma table running mach3 but there is a limit to the amount of I/O with Mach3 unless your move into ESS (Ethernet smooth stepper) or expansion boards with pmdx. The cost gets up there.

I know you went Linux. Is your's up and running now? Being you have both Mach and Linux anything you would have changed about the way you did your boss? Your thread, and subsequent searches on Mesa hardware, has me leaning towards Linux because like you said the lower cost and I/O capabilities.

[Shefron]

Oh ya I forgot about that. Crap...another expense. I haven't picked the machine up yet and I was thinking about that last night and what to do there. It looked like some guys removed them or maybe theirs were different versions of Boss that didn't have them.

What about the spindle speed? Is that the same 24volt pneumatic system? I planned on using a VFD and control the spindle speed in Mach/EMC2. Should I just get rid of that assembly? I know there were articles in HSM in 2003/2004 on refitting a BP Boss but I've only been able to track down the first issue of the series. All it had was cleanup and removal of components. I'm pretty sure they covered it. I know there is a lot of stuff online too with conversions but I don't remember anyone talking about that. I will have to go back through my bookmarks (like 30 of them) and reread some stuff.

What about the lube system and coolant systems? Were they 24 volt too or something else? Sorry for all the questions. Probably make a lot more sense once it's in front of me.

Spindle speed is also controlled by a 24v solenoid but mine will be set to the max speed then have linuxcnc control the vfd. Im still working on getting the direction control working with the WJ200 but that's more a manual issue with the hitachi VFD. I will probably switch that over to Modbus protocol for speed control and direction since it is support in Linuxcnc. System will be switched over to a single pulley style once I find more info about the parts needed or find the time to tear mine down for measurements.

I know you went Linux. Is your's up and running now? Being you have both Mach and Linux anything you would have changed about the way you did your boss? Your thread, and subsequent searches on Mesa hardware, has me leaning towards Linux because like you said the lower cost and I/O capabilities.

Due to time restraint from working long hours Im still working on the finishing touches for my boss. So far the spindle brake, VFD speed control, Home and limit switches, and motor movement are working. The machine could be milling at this time but I want to get all the optional stuff running first. Today I hope to finish off the Coolant control relay and lube system.


Lube system - 115V AC
Coolant system - 115v AC

Coolant system might be hit or miss depending on what the shop had running.

[jonesturf]

Cool, thanks. Sounds about exactly what I want to do with mine. I was wondering about Modbus versus analog for spindle speeds. I will have to look into the benefit there. Are you gonna to make an encoder for the spindle too?

You may have seen this already but here's a video from a guy who did the single pulley conversion. I think he based his off the HSM articles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klGpG8dYU7M

and here where he upgrades it to 2:1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRZgb9F5jKs

Here's a thread on that too: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bridge...onversion.html

[Shefron]

Cool, thanks. Sounds about exactly what I want to do with mine. I was wondering about Modbus versus analog for spindle speeds. I will have to look into the benefit there. Are you gonna to make an encoder for the spindle too?

You may have seen this already but here's a video from a guy who did the single pulley conversion. I think he based his off the HSM articles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klGpG8dYU7M

and here where he upgrades it to 2:1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRZgb9F5jKs

Here's a thread on that too: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bridge...onversion.html

I will be adding a encoder on the spindle in the near future. Figure I should get everything running before I start complicating my mill.

Coolant is now working and I will probably need to make a post to see how to turn on the bijur lubrication pump only when the spindle is running.