[SCzEngrgGroup]

Peter,

I'm a bit confused..... I run a Glacern 4" 45-degree 6-insert face mill on all three of my machines all the time - one Chi-wanese BP clone, the Novakon Torus Pro, and the Novakon Pulsar. All are 1.5-2HP machines. The BP and Torus Pro are both larger than the Tormach, the Pulsar is smaller. - between the 770 and 100 in size. I can do a full-width cut at 35 IPM, 0.05" DOC in 6061 on all three machines without breaking a sweat. I don't understand why the Tormach would not be able to do the same. Are you cutting steel or some harder material?

The Glacern does use polished inserts (https://www.google.com/search?q=SEHT...sm=93&ie=UTF-8) made specifically for cutting aluminum with very low power. I can understand why the face mill on the left in your picture may not work well, because of the insert geometry. The one on the right looks better, but still not ideal for aluminum, as they don't look all that sharp. I have a cheap 2" face mill that uses triangular inserts, and it requires more power than the Glacern, despite being half the size - it's all in in the insert geometry.

In fact, just yesterday I ordered a new 2.5" 45-degree face mill which will get a TTS shank. The Glacern, for obvious reasons, has an R8 shank, so, even though I can very easily swap it in with my PDB, it's still a hassle, and not at all ATC-friendly. I figure the 2.5" mill should be just about right for most operations.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Peter Neill]

Sorry Ray - yeah, I was pretty much referring to Steels rather than Aluminium as I tend to cut more of this than anything, although I do want the Tormach Flycutter specifically for a wide Aluminium Job.

I have a lot of small one off jigs and fixtures and prototypes I make for some customers and these are invariably all in P20, Stainless, or EN19/24T (4140/4340) - with the P20 and Stainless being pre-hardened versions.
It's these ones that the facemills struggle with, I can't go any more than 0.050-0.060" DOC without a slow feed on any decent sort of width. I must admit that these facemills already have full R8 shanks on them and I don't want to adapt them to use the TTS/Power drawbar system as I wouldn't trust the retention, at least with the R8 shank I get the drawbar holding them.

These are about the largest facemill chips I can get away with on the Bridgy, probably (hand) feeding around 10-12 ipm - these particular ones are at a 0.050" DOC in pre-hard Stainless (1.2085)



The smaller 40mm Sandvik R390 I have with the GC2040 grade APKT inserts works really well on both mills and on pretty any ferrous stock, although they are more stainless specific inserts, they really shift a lot of material. I'll try and get a picture up for it sometime, but tonight it's too cold, dark, and haunted in the workshop to go out there

Peter

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Peter,

OK, that makes more sense. Steel is a much different ballgame.... I wouldn't do steel with my 4" mill, but have done quite a bit with the little 2", with no problems, and it's a piece of junk (paid $30 for it).

Regards,
Ray L.

[jcposada]

Peter - try searching the store for "fly cutter" - that is how I initially found it. I was looking specifically for a replacement tool holder as I my 2nd hand tormach came with the fly cutter and I am embarrassed to admit I broke it within the first week - but at least I learned its limits.

Ray, I am curious to know - do you use your Glacern facemills with the TTS? I have the 3" FM45 but it's sat on the shelf since the Tormach arrived and I have not really bothered to see if there is a TTS-compatible arbor for it.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Ray, I am curious to know - do you use your Glacern facemills with the TTS? I have the 3" FM45 but it's sat on the shelf since the Tormach arrived and I have not really bothered to see if there is a TTS-compatible arbor for it.

No, as I indicated, my 4" Glacern has an R8 shank. It takes a 1" arbor - I don't know that you'd find a suitable arbor with a 3/4" shank. I, for one, would not try something that big on TTS. I do plan to use TTS for the 2.5" face mill I just bought. I've been using TTS with a 2" face mill for years, on both aluminum and steel, and never had a problem. Id' be willing to try a 3". Certainly it would be fine for finishing - I wouldn't get too aggressive with it. But, I don't know where you'd find a 1" arbor with 3/4" shank. The 2.5 I just bought takes a 3/4" arbor.

Regards,
Ray L.

[jcposada]

Do you mind sharing info on the source for the 2.5"?

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Do you mind sharing info on the source for the 2.5"?

I got it from Shars:

3/4x3/4" Shell Mill Arbor 202-5328 1 $32.50
2 1/2" 45 degree Face Mill SEHT Insert 404-2246 1 $112.29
SEHT 43 1204 AFTN YBG205 Inserts 424-1502 5 $40.00

Regards,
Ray L.

[FuriousGeorge]

I have the 2.5 and it RIPS through aluminum. Here is a thread on converting it to TTS or those interested.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormac...m45_tts-2.html

I run it about 3000 RPM, 0.02" DOC and 90 ipm for full 2.5" facing

[Peter Neill]

Did the first stage today, cut the insert holder from some scrap P20 high-hard (like 4340 HT).
The camera flash makes it look much rougher than it actually is, although the code is not the best and would benefit from a few tweaks, but it's only a toolholder prototype at this stage not a finished display part.
Also have to get the file out and finish off the insert seat bottom corners as I couldn't be bothered to setup a 0.040" cutter to do them. On the rest there are some pretty funky angles as the seat has 7deg and 5 degree radial rake on it. Gonna be a little bit of fun setting up the seat at those angles to drill and tap the screw hole

[Peter Neill]

Well I finished the holder, then tried it out in the Bridgy in my normal flycutter body......and it cut like s**t
Must have got the relief angles wrong, although I had both 7 deg axial rake & 7 deg radial rake, and the cutter tip was also a *little* ahead of the centreline as the flycutter body sets 1/2" HSS bars on centre, and the insert tip was probably about 0.040"-0.050" ahead of that.

Anyway, I had a little bit of fun programming and cutting it, but now I'm going to take advantage of the earlier link jcposada posted and spend a relatively measly $44.

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[widget_maker]

I must say that experience has taught me that facemills are the one item I don't buy Chinese (i.e. Glacern, Shars). I had a Shars and never had good luck with runout. I bought a 3" Kennametal and was fine. I also tried going cheap with a Polish 2" shoulder mill with similarly bad results. Bought an Iscar 2" shouldermill and again, all was well.

Probably my biggest mistake was mentioning Glacern on the Practical machinist site. Oh boy, I got a mouthfull from many angles......... Of course they think Tormach is quote "cr@p" as well so I typically don't go there any more.

They also told me that I was an idiot to use a 3" facemill on my Sharp, but with light cuts (on steel) it works absolutely fine.

BTW I am getting a tormach flycutter delivered today with some other goodies....

[Michael82]

Well I finished the holder, then tried it out in the Bridgy in my normal flycutter body......and it cut like s**t
Must have got the relief angles wrong, although I had both 7 deg axial rake & 7 deg radial rake, and the cutter tip was also a *little* ahead of the centreline as the flycutter body sets 1/2" HSS bars on centre, and the insert tip was probably about 0.040"-0.050" ahead of that.

Anyway, I had a little bit of fun programming and cutting it, but now I'm going to take advantage of the earlier link jcposada posted and spend a relatively measly $44.

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Hey Peter ,
Do you mind sharing the drawings / prints you made this from I am doing a little research and I am having to teach a few newbies on machining and theory I would like them to try and make this cutter and figure out the in's and out's of it do you mind sharing if you till have them available

[Peter Neill]

Hey Peter ,
Do you mind sharing the drawings / prints you made this from I am doing a little research and I am having to teach a few newbies on machining and theory I would like them to try and make this cutter and figure out the in's and out's of it do you mind sharing if you till have them available

Ah no - long time binned. It was a pretty useless project

[Michael82]

Ah no - long time binned. It was a pretty useless project

Thanks anyway