[bentfab]

Hello all. I'm a designer/sculptor who's primary business is design/build of corporate, hospitality and hospital art. I'm looking for a large scale (5'x10') DIY kit. The only ones I've found so far are the Green Bull from Buildyourcnc.com and CNC Router Parts Pro 4896 which I have been told I can get in a 5'x10'. Are there any others that I'm just not finding? Does anyone here have any experience with either of the kits I've listed? The frame from CNC RP looks sexier, but the Green Bull kits seems to be a more complete kit.

I've noticed neither kit offers a vacuum table set up. I could build my own, but from lookong around this forum some it seems most of you are not using a vacuum system? Other than cost is there a reason for this?

I have a good deal of experience using a Multi Cam 3000 series machine as well as a Limac 3000 series machine(not a bad machine as long as you don't need parts or customer service).

I would use it to cut plywwod, mdf, plastics, acrylic and aluminum up to 0.125"(so I would like to add a misting system). I'm not a high volume shop so I'm more interested in accuracy and repeatability over speed. I'm very mechanically competent so build difficulty is not an issue. I'm looking for a kit because I don't want to go thru the time and effort of rounding up all of the parts myself. I'm very busy right now and this month alone have outsourced enough cnc work to have already built something!

Thanks for your help, if there is already a thread discussing this could someone point me to it?

[ger21]

There's no comparison at all between those two. CNC ROUter Parts is far superior.

Full table vacuum systems tend to be rather loud and expensive, so you don't see too many DIY vaccum tables. A good vacuum system for a 5x10 table can easily cost $10,000 or more. Here's a setup that uses vacuum cleaner motors, but it's probably not powerful enough for a 5x10. Hurricane Vac System for CAMaster CNC Routers | Router Bits | UsRouterTools.com
A lot of Shopbot users have built similar systems, and there's info on building one of these on their forum.

On our 5x12 machine, we have two 10HP pumps that cost over $7000 each.

[bentfab]

Thanks.
I think I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a CNCRP 5x10 set up. I'm thinking I need a spindle instead of a router, I cut everything from .75" plywood and acrylic to .125" aluminum. SO I need something with more speed control. What is a good source for a spindle and VFD set up that won't break the bank? How powerful a spindle do you recommend? I see a lot of water cooled spindles out there, but having water that close to expensive electronics makes me nervous.

[ger21]

Cheapest spindles are from China via Ebay. Next up is the same spindles from a US distributor like Professional CNC Spindles. Air / Water Cooled CNC Spindle Motors, VFD You'll pay about double for peace of mind.

I'd probably go for a 4kw on a bigger machine like that. 2.2kw minimum.

Water cooled can usually run at both higher and slightly lower rpms than a fan cooled router.

[UgraCNC]

Hello gentlemen,

Cheapest spindles are from China via Ebay. Next up is the same spindles from a US distributor like Professional CNC Spindles. Air / Water Cooled CNC Spindle Motors, VFD You'll pay about double for peace of mind.

Gerry, I totally agree the cheapest option is Chinese sellers on eBay.

I do not agree Ugra's spindles are the same as the ones from China via Ebay.

There are so many spindle factories and small shops making spindles in China. Some of them make good product, some not.
But you cannot define what is it worthy before you have a sample in your hands.

I still have a couple of new spindles sitting on shelf for years. I got the spindles as samples from a quite large and well presented Chinese factory.
Heck, they are so bad that I cannot convince myself to sell them.

At UgraCNC.com we sell the best Chinese spindles I could find in China. They are quite expensive but we decided that the cost is worthy of the quality.

I know a guy who used to sell spindles from China. He is now in other business so when I spoke to him he felt free to tell me his story.

He lives in an industrial area in China. There are a lot of small resellers on the local market. They sell a little bit of everything.

So the guy went to one of them with a camera, took some pictures and posted the parts on eBay.
As soon as he got a sale and received the payment he went to the seller and bought the part he sold. All he needed to do is to send the order to the customer.

He said he never stocked anything but sold thousands of parts including spindles, ball screws, t-slot extrusions e.t.c.

When it happened the exact part he sold was not available he just bought whatever was available from another seller on the local market.

He always bought the cheapest parts available so he had a good profit. Did he care about the customers? No. Most of his customers were too far away.

He said that many Chinese sellers on eBay follow the same way.

Although I find this way to sell stuff to be very smart, I also see some serious drawbacks.

That is why we stock in US and sell the best spindles I could find.

Water cooled can usually run at both higher and slightly lower rpms than a fan cooled router.

Properly designed air cooled spindles have a sufficient air flow to cool even at lower rpm.

[ger21]

Yes, you are correct. In some cases, you may get a similar quality spindle to what UGRA sells, but in other cases, you may not. You really don't even know if what you'll be getting will match the picture or description in the add.

[bentfab]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm getting ready to relocate my shop, so I'm not ready to buy just yet. I don't want to set the router up just to break it down and move it!

Whatever I buy will depend greatly on the funds available when the time comes. I might have to get something cheap to get started then upgrade later. I'm sure I'll have more questions when it gets closer to time to buy.

[daniel28]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm getting ready to relocate my shop, so I'm not ready to buy just yet. I don't want to set the router up just to break it down and move it!

Whatever I buy will depend greatly on the funds available when the time comes. I might have to get something cheap to get started then upgrade later. I'm sure I'll have more questions when it gets closer to time to buy.

Hi Bentfab!

When do you plan to relocate? Are you in need of a machinery relocation firm to help you relocate? If so, give Hanlon and Wright a call. They are experts when it comes to machinery relocation

[wizard]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm getting ready to relocate my shop, so I'm not ready to buy just yet. I don't want to set the router up just to break it down and move it!

That certainly wouldn't be good.

Whatever I buy will depend greatly on the funds available when the time comes. I might have to get something cheap to get started then upgrade later.

If you do this I upstage you to build a robust base frame and gantry system to have a good base for further upgrades. However this becomes a DIY project which you apparently don't have time for. That is completely understandable but I'd be concerned about the robustness of some kits. A 5 x 10 machine is nothing trivial and if you have high expectations for performance and accuracy it needs to be fairly robust.

There is an alternative to a complete DIY machine, actually there are a few, in its case though what I might suggest is to get a machine shop, preferable one that builds machinery, to build you a base frame. Now admittedly contracting with a tool builder isn't cheap but you are limiting the expense by only having the base built. To do nice work in aluminum and to have the support for vacuum tables and the like, a robust frame would do wonders.

A frame here could just be the base or it could include the rails and gantry system. The big proble is that you would have to find an existing design or draft up one yourself. Most tools shops have some engineering capability but you don't want to pay for that.

I'm sure I'll have more questions when it gets closer to time to buy.

You will have questions up until the machine is retired. We all run into questions about how things should work, what upgrades make sense and just general suggestions for a better way. The nice thing about CNCZone is that you will get a variety of answers.