[popspipes]

I did get some smoke cutting 304 ss on the lathe, I used Ridgid cutting oil cut a bit with stoddard solvent, fire wasnt a problem but the smoke was at times.

I dont get any smoke on the mill but I am only cutting 6061, however its something to keep an eye on thats for sure.

I am also from the "era" of the oil, kerosene with lard mixed in etc, never had a fire that I am aware of, but it had an odor all its own at times,especially monday mornings after sitting all weekend.

[JohnToner]

Mike,

I usually run 6061, 4041, or 303. Only the steels give me smoke. I used to use kerosene for 6061, it really gives a beautiful finish. I stopped because it always created a mist that seemed one spark short of a fuel/air bomb. Granted, the Al doesn't spark, still I chickened out. The Mobil 766 may not be the best for each metal, but it is satisfactory and even with heavy flooding, splatter isn't a huge problem. My "shop" is inside a garage that has no doors, so smoke evacuation isn't a major concern. If I ever put a door on it, I have a 3 ph, 1hp centrifugal fan that should help. I already have 3 ph power,

[JohnToner]

Is anybody else running a petroleum based coolant?

[vertcnc]

I am sure the OSB plywood on the walls and ceiling didn't help, very combustible. Best to have non-combustible construction for the shop. At least simple 5/8 drywall which has an hour rating.

[popspipes]

I do John, we used oil on the lathe always, Water soluble was used only on the bandsaw, the manual mill and drill press was brushed on oil when needed.

[scadvice]

No ... No ... No ... to using ATF or any oils as coolant. Cheap water soluble oils or synthetics are best. McMaster-Carr. To me even for misting I personally do not like "Koolmist" coolants or systems and use Nogacool By NOGA . They (All of them) are easy to over mist, filling the air with overspray so you have to learn to use them right. I've been using them for years and hooked up a relay to a air valve to turn it on and off when the spindle is turned on. I mix fairly high at twenty to thirty percent oil in the water. I always flush and clean them out weekly or they all will clog then you can't get a low pressure and fine mist deposit on your part. Misters are less messy than pumped/flood coolant and allow you to use simple chip deflectors as apposed to full guarding, but do require more maintenance.

Flood cooling is less work but a much bigger mess so maybe it all pans out. I have use the same solubles or synthetics for that.

Sealing your vise:

The simplest way I've found to avoid rust is to mount them this way and every 4 months or so if I have not removed it, I do it over.

Using this product seems to work well: McMaster-Carr

I stone and clean the table and vise bottom of all nicks using a very fine india stone and WD -40 or some such light cleaner kerosene also works. Dry both completely. Spray a generous coating of lps #3 on the vise bottom and the table where I'm going to mount it. mount the vise sliding it around and back in forth a inch or so to help seal at the edges. Aline and bolt down. Then take a rag or paper towel and remove the excess lps#3 on the table to about a half to three-eights of an inch from the vise edge. Then you must let it dry three or four hours before use otherwise your just going to wash it off and waste your time.( I let it set and sit overnight.) This will seal the edges all around and underneath the vice.


Another tip: I move the vise around on the table to even out the surface, gibb, and ball screw wear.

In the old days cutting oils were not as great of hazard as today. HHS tools limited the speed at which you were cutting, milling and turning. Now with coated tools and carbine were are cutting, milling and turning at up to a hundred times faster thereby more heat and chance of flash fire. FWIW- a lot of business insurance companies will cancel you if they know your using oils only... unless you have a very sophisticated fire suppression system.

[kirk_wallace]

I can't keep up with the daily maintenance that water based fluids require, and I absolutely hate rust on my machines, so I use neat oil fluids or go dry. If I had regular production and could hire someone to maintain the water based fluids I might think about using them, but I don't see happening from where I'm standing now.

[JohnToner]

Air from a cheap aquarium pump bubbling in the coolant tank will handle the rancidity problem. That's what I used when I was running water soluble oil. But so far I haven't found a non-corrosive, non-rusting water soluble coolant, hence the petroleum based coolant. When I switched to oil, I found my coolant tank to be well crudded, corroded, and rusted, OTW not too bad.

[underthetire]

I've seen many machines burn from cutting oils, some burned holes in the roof some 25 feet above the machine. They burn HOT. One shop had relatively small flame ups about once a month, average repair bill was around 25k for the machines. They switched to a higher flash point oil made by hangstefers(sp) missle lube. Stuff really helped and was thin enough even for the high pressure coolant. The stuff also lasted, since there was no lard and whatnot in it.

[300sniper]

I will not use straight oil in any of my CNC machines. I purchased a used turning center that ran straight cutting oil. While the machine absolutely looks in brand new condition, there is oil from the mist EVERYWHERE. Even though I switched to a water based coolant and have completely douched out the interior, every panel I remove from the machine still has oil behind it. Even removing the rear of the control panel has pooled up oil in it. I do use Rigid dark sulfur thread cutting oil for a reaming operation on my manual machine but that never creates mist.

As far as water based coolants going rancid, I have had the same batch of Blaser Vasco 7000 coolant in my turning center since I got it this summer. I use a C-Thru oil separator and leave it running 24-7. The coolant still looks and smells as fresh as the day I added it. My machine only gets used a few hours a week and then sits the rest of the week. I have no doubt it would be almost unbearable by now without the separator circulating the coolant constantly.

[scadvice]

FWIW- I was at a shop in L.A., California... years back, looking at a machine a guy had for sale, He was running two FADAL machines with Moly D for coolant!! He was bragging how well it cut and machined the 304 ss. Yes, I agreed it would, but that it was not a good thing to do, very dangerous...respiratory issues for operator…fire... you know. He laughed and said that he had been doing it for over a year without problems. Three months after I bought the machine from him ( not one of those machines) I read how his whole shop burned to the ground. I talked to the machinery dealer who worked with me on the buy... and he confirmed that that is what happened. One of the FADAL machines burned a drill and caught fire... Everyone got out, but just barely...

[JohnToner]

I guess I'll be looking for a water based coolant that doesn't rust the dickens out of everything in sight.

[WOTDesigns]

Air from a cheap aquarium pump bubbling in the coolant tank will handle the rancidity problem. That's what I used when I was running water soluble oil. But so far I haven't found a non-corrosive, non-rusting water soluble coolant, hence the petroleum based coolant. When I switched to oil, I found my coolant tank to be well crudded, corroded, and rusted, OTW not too bad.

+1 ON THE BUBBLER!

The first time I was out of town and my wife came to the shop to do shipping for me I got a frantic phone call because the machines were gargling at her.

I went through several coolants on my Tormach and have quite a few posts and pictures I have shared of staining on 6061 from various mixtures of coolant and way oil including Mobil, cheap stuff from Mcmaster mixed with KoolMist, and Tormach Syntha6. I tried tap water, distilled water, bottled water and still had staining on both mist and flood when they would mix with way oil. I built straining systems with oil sorbant materials and still had issues. When I bought the Haas they gave me a free 5 gallon bucket of Hysol MB 20 by Castrol

click here for a random link I just googled

I have been using it on both machines since April and absolutely love the stuff. No smell, no staining, no irritation and I have splashed it directly in my eyes several times and it didn't even burn. It is white and wipes off of everything easily. The mixture is 5-8% and if it gets below its visually evident by a slight two/tone color when sitting on the table. I barely even use my testers any more. It is so much nicer that I tossed out 3 gallons of Tormach nasty smelling coolant that left the inside of the 20 gallon reservoir completely disgusting. I just call my Haas Factory Outlet, place an order for 5 gallons and a few days later the Castrol rep drops it off in person for free. No shipping cost. I think I pay $150-$170 for the 5 gallons.

My research had me wanting to try Blasor Cut (which may as well be unobtanium) or Rustlick 5050 which I can pick up locally at KBC tools. Since Haas told me they started using the Castrol because it cleaned up easier than anything they had used so they could re-sell the demo machines without damage, smell or rust I figured I would give it a try. I have used it on 6061 for heavy machining, a ton of drilling and thousands of rigid tapped holes, 7075, Delrin, 1018, mystery customer steel (and brake pads). I haven't used it on stainless yet but I have no reservations as it is slippery as pig snot when wet and dries with a thin slightly cloudy film that wipes off even after a month leaving a nice shiny surface.

Coolant seems too be like the car manufacturer debate. If you like Ford then Ford is better than Chevy... Unless you like Chevy... It all comes down to what is accessible and what is cheap enough to afford. Koolmist is the greatest thing since sliced bread for many folks (even when used as flood which it wasn't designed for), heck I know guys that use straight water and swear its better than coolant. I have pictures, videos and many ruined parts to prove it contributed to strange interactions on my machines. The stuff Tormach sells stinks to high hell and I got more rust than when using Kool Mist. With the Castrol (and many others I am sure) I have a much better and more user friendly experience. Mind you... HFO can afford any damn coolant they want and they prefer Castrol on THEIR demo and in house machines. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and love it.

EDIT: I also just want to toss out there that in my humble opinion using flammable liquids or ATF or ground up toads or any thing other than the coolants that companies have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars testing and refining is just ridiculous. I understand if there is a valid reason, but I just don't get it. I see posts saying "I only use diesel and I haven't blown up yet" and think of a drunk driver saying "I haven't killed anyone yet". It's just not worth it. Other things that work better/safer are... better... and safer.

[JohnToner]

I'm sold on the Castrol. I'll pickup 5 gal Monday if I can find a local vendor, (and borrow the wife's SUV b/c a 5 gal bucket won't fit in my car), and take advantage of some downtime to make the change over. OTW, I'll order online. The price for Castrol is inline with the Mobil I've been using, but the Mobil has insignificant evaporation. Still, I have a rather expensive house and my dear wifey would be annoyed if it burned to the ground.

[G59]

Still, I have a rather expensive house and my dear wifey would be annoyed if it burned to the ground.

Ha ha ha.................too funny.

[JohnToner]

Brian,

Thanks for your help. Today I ordered 5 gal of Castro Hysol MB 20. Shipping was $30.00, ouch! But, no sales tax. I ordered it from Aculube.

[WOTDesigns]

Any time John. I should have given you my reps #. I think it comes out about the same with shipping vs ordering from HFO though.

You should see tormach now. Matt spent 2.5 hours cleaning it this morning for its upcoming photo shoot

Brian
WOT Designs

[BAMCNC.COM]

I'm a Qualichem 291 User, but for most of you - Qualichem 251

I have videos about it, and have gotten alot of other YouTube machinists to switch to it aswell. All very happy with the move from Kool Mist or Tormach Coolant.

I run 7-10%, it is a "Synthetic water soluble oil"

If you run Kool Mist, then you need to mix it to 10% to stop rust, but then you get blue gel everywhere. Kool Mist grows bacteria, Qualichem doesn't. I don't use tramp oil pillow, or a bubbler and have had ZERO issues - unheard of for most coolants.

Message me if interested, I can send you my Rep's email

[shred]

I went through Kool Mist as a flood-- works ok if mixed rich enough as a coolant but didn't seem to do much for cutting. Tried Tormach's coolant and that works ok for a while, then the anti-rust suddenly stop working even though the brix is still in range. A local shop hooked me up with some Hangsterfers and that seems to be worlds better at least so far. Cut quality is improved and rust is not happening, even on 12L14 chips left in the machine for a few days.

Machine has a bubbler in the tank and I run it anywhere from not at all for a couple weeks to almost every day... cutting mostly aluminum and steel and not being particularly anal about cleaning after use.

[WOTDesigns]

... very happy with the move from Kool Mist or Tormach Coolant.

Hard to get any worse.

Brian
WOT Designs