[mike^3]

Hey Hey!

So I just picked up a 1997 fadal vmc 15 for a super cheap deal! 2k!

Needs a resolver and thrust bearings, but those are cheap.

it has a ton of surface rust LOL

So here are some vids, I plan on getting it up and running and functional. Then retrofitting it to mach 3. I will be selling the controller if anyone is interested.

Thanks

Mike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGIsIfosnOg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT4aucyEVBQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YSnE9glMLY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI5MrvP8ndc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I0QBqgVo-Y

more soon!

[Bl@ckrat]

sorry how much ??? seriously , you make me wanna cry

[mike^3]

Hi LSM, this fadal is not setup for 4th or 5th axis, only 3 drive cards. But I dont do any 4/5 axis work anyways.

I did take off all the covers to see how eveything is doing. Like I said I probably won't do a retrofit, as long as it all works OK .

I can post process fanuc gcode just fine. Its the whole DNC drip feed that I am not thrilled about....

I will be working on the machine next week as I just finished epoxy coating my shop floor . I will update everyone then

[mike^3]

Hi LSM, this fadal is not setup for 4th or 5th axis, only 3 drive cards, perhaps in the controller yes... But I dont do any 4/5 axis work anyways. This is just hobby stuff for me ;D

I did take off all the covers to see how eveything is doing, one of the linear rail trucks have failed, and there is slop in the table, so I have to see if its the ballscrew or thrust bearing...

Like I said I probably won't do a retrofit, as long as it all works OK .

I can post process fanuc gcode just fine. Its the whole DNC drip feed that I am not thrilled about....

I will be working on the machine next week as I just finished epoxy coating my shop floor . I will update everyone then

[mike^3]

So what kind of tolerances where you able to hold? Where did you find out how many hours were on the machine within the control?

Thanks

Mike

[mike^3]

it was a great deal, but as you can see I have a lot of work to get it clean and running

[LSM]

Did your mama drop you on your head?
Mach3 is crap compared to the Fadal control.
And most homemade retrofits never quite work right .
One major problem is the windows based os isn't stable, they hiccup.
you can convert it to single phase.

It wants good 3phase power not a homemade phase-converter but a cncgrade one.
All the component boads are available at reasonable prices either new or rebuilt.
VMCelectric is one place that has the boards fadalcnc is another download the books.
It is eproms no hard drive or floppy for the main controller.
wild idea hit the jog key to get into jog mode.

You want to go to stepper from servos that's a joke right?
get a clue read the manual .
There isn't much wrong with it other the serious operator error,
they told you it had a bad resolver replace the resolver
Probably for a few thousand at most you can have a good working very reliable machine

wd40 and a scothcbright to get rid of the surface rust

[fizzissist]

Did your mama drop you on your head?
Mach3 is crap compared to the Fadal control.
And most homemade retrofits never quite work right .
One major problem is the windows based os isn't stable, they hiccup.
you can convert it to single phase.

It wants good 3phase power not a homemade phase-converter but a cncgrade one.
All the component boads are available at reasonable prices either new or rebuilt.
VMCelectric is one place that has the boards fadalcnc is another download the books.
It is eproms no hard drive or floppy for the main controller.
wild idea hit the jog key to get into jog mode.

You want to go to stepper from servos that's a joke right?
get a clue read the manual .
There isn't much wrong with it other the serious operator error,
they told you it had a bad resolver replace the resolver
Probably for a few thousand at most you can have a good working very reliable machine

wd40 and a scothcbright to get rid of the surface rust

What he said.

[Bl@ckrat]

No no no ... You got it all wrong , the fadal system is crap ... Mach3 is so much easier

Ps I'll send my shipping address for the fadal stuff ... Just wrap in a big box !

[mike^3]

Haha, such lovely responses...

First off, no one really told me what was wrong with it, this is all me figuring it out. The only thing they mentioned was the table slop.

Do your research before you dog a controller. Mach 3 paired with a DSPMC or CSMIO it a rock solid combo. It takes away all the latency crap from windows and does everything on board the motion controller.

Also, who the hell said I was gonna put steppers on? Wtf? Now that is retarded.... I can use all the existing servos and drives with a DSPMC motion controller. I can use the spindle drive, tool carousel, etc.

But all in all, if I most likely won't convert it to mach 3, as long as I can get everything to work nicely.

Some advantages of mach 3 are:

Add a 4th and 5 axis trunion, and drive cards, and your in business.
Auto tool touch off macro.
Tool digitizer
No more annoying dripfeed.
Faster rapids when I use an encoder instead of resolver....
Customizable screen sets

But I am new to fadal control, I will learn and master it. Then I will decide on the retrofit....

Thanks for the reply guys

One Question,

One of my linear rail trucks has the bearings falling out, the end cap got slightly dislodged and some of the balls came out, anyone know if I can repack them? Have not looked at them yet.

Thanks

Mike

[mike^3]

Hello Deano, do you have the format 2 post processor for mastercam? If so, could you e-mail it to me? Or point me to where I can get it?

I was learning linuxcnc for awhile but that was such a pain to learn and program....

Journey, or Destination....

Well I need to make some plates to finish my CHNC's. But I don't machine for a business, if I did, I would not retrofit, I would just buy a new machine...

So for me, its a little of both the journey and the destination.

One thing I found very interesting on these fadals is the fact that there are no limit switches on the x and y! Kinda, goofy if you ask me....

The only thing I would miss without mach 3 is probably the auto tool zero and touch off, hand held MPG, no dnc drip feed, customizable screens, digital probing, auto workpiece offsets, tool touchoff, and auto part zeros, etc.....

Deano, what mach3 set up did you use? i.e. DSPMC controller? CSMIO controller? Smooth Stepper? or just parallel port....?

Let me know,

Thanks

Mike

[scruz]

nice deal. Go to FIVESMSI.com for real OEM PARTS..

[vertcnc]

Mike,

Lucky dog, Wish it was mine. I would try and correct all the mechanical issues the way it is, then explore the retrofit option. I am with you on mach 3 and CS-Labs Boards. The other option to look at is the FlashCut Setup. Dave Decaussin has retrofitted a VMC15 with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN3DOs8I1Ec

[mike^3]

Deano, could I see your tool change atc macro? Mach 3

Also, which motion controller did you use? Plain old PP? ethernet SS? DSPMC? etc...
The reason being is that the closed loop DSPMC and CSMIO options dont rely on the windows jitter to make steps and dir for outputs....it does eveything on board, just like a normal industrial motion controller...

If your using Parallel port, thats where u are gonna have issues, even if you use usb or ethernet. Without a DSPMC or CSMIO, you kinda only relying on the computer... not the motion controller.

[mike^3]

Thanks Vert and Scruz,

I called Flashcut, and they require an entire retrofit with new drives and motors, because they can not inferface existing motors and drives. The DSPMC and CSMIO can, but are like 1k for the controller...DSPMC is US based, and CSMIO is in europe I think....

Hey Vert, have you used the CS labs board before?

[mike^3]

Also what kind of machine do you have? got any pics? vids?

[mike^3]

To answer and earlier statement, about converting to single phase, I read this in the manual, but you de rate the spindle power and motors to 60%. This is not what I would like.

And that rotary phase converter is CNC grade...not home built... it looks like it because I moved it all from my front shop, and had the panels and jimmyed the wiries to power it up....

Best quote ever, "Think before you speak". I too have trouble with this concept LOL

[vertcnc]

Mike,
No, I have not tried CS-Labs boards, but have read a lot of good retrofits with them. If I find a capable VMC15 that will be my option if sticking with original drives and motors.

[LSM]

Sounds like they gave it away because of mechanical issues,
need to pull all the covers and check the conditions of the linear ways and ball screws.
A 97 should already be set up for 4th axis and can be expanded to 5,
now you might get lucky and find a 5axis table for $15000 used new is something like $26000

A vmc 15 is a good garage home shop machine relatively small, and not a huge spindle motor, if it has the 10 hp you will need a 30hp converter.
it needs adequate clean dry air , it's faster then a Haas toolroom, cheap to work on relatively and dirt simple.
it well supported parts wise, in no way is it an orphan.

Are you going to g code by hand?
if not it's all in the post processor guess what Fadal is one of the controllers that is well supported there, just like Haas, Mach3 not so much.
People don't buy a Haas normally and plan to do a control retrofit why because the one it came with works well and you can repair it.
Same thing with the Fadal they work and you can get the parts to repair them.
Not great candidates for retrofit project leave them alone.

Now something that is a n orphan like Brigdeprot controllers, or that are horribly expensive to work on, yes find one with a dead controller and do a retrofit.
But even then probably want to go with something like a Centroid.

[LSM]

Format 2 is similar to fanuc dnc isn't a big deal like all the older machines you can buy adapters.
I worried about that part of an older machine to, for the older Haas you get a usb floppy emulator,
for the Fadal calmotion makes an nice adapter, just plug a flash drive into it, only limitation is you have to keep the file names short just like dos

It's when the iron part gets worn out that the become junk, good news is you can replace the linear ways.
keep in mind machine dollars are like boat dollars one machine dollar is 1000 regular dollars.