[engnerdan]

Is the Fanuc motor fan cooled? I think a fan creates a lot of noise too.
Just asking, cause I was looking at buying a 3.7kw Yaskawa motor with 8000k rpm.
Did you ever get that Yaskawa motor working, or is that and the Fanuc motor all the same?

I never got the Yaskawa running, it had shorted windings and went back to the seller. One thing to know at least with the Fanuc motor, this is not a bolt it on and go. It will require some higher level programming in the VFD. The motor I have says rights on the name plate "110-230 Volt" or something close to those numbers (not looking it up right now). After some testing and research into magnetic fields and inductors, I figured out that the motor I bought is the equivalent of an 1500 RPM 110 VAC 3 phase motor at 50 Hz. But at 8000 RPM it is 230 VAC 266.66 Hz. Take a look at this chart to see the difference. There is a lot more to all this that could take up a couple posts but this is the short version of it. Depending on the VFD used this might not be a problem, for the Hitachi I am using it is not.

Attachment 260564

The Fanuc motor has a powered fan just like the factory motor on the Novakon. Most wide RPM range AC motors that I have come across have separate powered fans. At the low speeds a shaft driven fan will not move enough air, and high speeds they could come apart or at least add a significant load to the motor. With that said when I ran the Fanuc on the bench I did not have the fan powered.

On the topic of powered fans, I recently have found that the metal bodied muffin fans have the capability to transmit a lot more noise into the the machine they are connected to than the molded plastic fans. I am actually looking for some new fans for my electrical cabinet, because the 220 VAC all metal fans I bought are very annoying when the machine is on but not cutting.

Is Aliexpress a legitimate place for shopping? They seem to really have alot of nice Machine tool hardware. I would be weary (personally) on something really expensive but seems like alot of potential.

Maybe I missed it, did you purchase a spindle from Aliexpress?

Best Regards,

-Jason

Well I bought my spindle and an air/hydraulic release cylinder from there and I got the items. From what I gather its like a ebay for vendors in China. They advertise their goods, you can contact them and find out more info. Unlike ebay its not an auction, so no bidding. When I bought the spindle Aliexpess processed my credit card and held it in a escrow until I went in and left feedback and told them to release the funds to the vendor. If I had not gone in and done that Aliexpress will pay the vendor after 30 days from the time the vendor claims to have shipped it.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Is Aliexpress a legitimate place for shopping? They seem to really have alot of nice Machine tool hardware. I would be weary (personally) on something really expensive but seems like alot of potential.

Maybe I missed it, did you purchase a spindle from Aliexpress?

Best Regards,

-Jason

AliExpress is a cr@p-shoot. Some vendors are good, some are awful. Hard to know which is which....

Regards,
Ray L.

[G59]

Good info there engnerdan. I guess my best bet is to buy the AC drive from Yaskawa as I don't want to fiddle around too much with a $1500 dollar motor. Sure they are nice and have the required RPM, I hope they have a long life for that kind of money.
I was looking at AliExpress, and they have a 3.7KW Yaskawa spindle motor and drive package for $2000. I emailed the seller yesterday and still no response.

I'm weary of anything that comes out of China.

Thanks for the info, I watch your thread religiously. LOL

[engnerdan]

Good info there engnerdan. I guess my best bet is to buy the AC drive from Yaskawa as I don't want to fiddle around too much with a $1500 dollar motor. Sure they are nice and have the required RPM, I hope they have a long life for that kind of money.
I was looking at AliExpress, and they have a 3.7KW Yaskawa spindle motor and drive package for $2000. I emailed the seller yesterday and still no response.

I'm weary of anything that comes out of China.

Thanks for the info, I watch your thread religiously. LOL

I got my motor used from Ebay for $350. The smaller 2-5HP motors seem to be less common and fetch a slightly higher price. But these motors are very well built and can run for a very long time. If they are not abused. The big thing that will go out is the bearings. One thing to know is these motors tend to be very heavy, they use a lot of iron to get a good magnetic field and it adds a lot of weight.

[G59]

One thing to know is these motors tend to be very heavy,

Yes I know. For the 3.7KW they have it down as 62lbs. But they only look small in picture. I made a 3D model of it with whatever drawings I could find and they are relatively big. 11"+ tall by 6"wide. That's a big chunk of steel.

[slowtwitch]

I got my motor used from Ebay for $350. The smaller 2-5HP motors seem to be less common and fetch a slightly higher price. But these motors are very well built and can run for a very long time. If they are not abused. The big thing that will go out is the bearings. One thing to know is these motors tend to be very heavy, they use a lot of iron to get a good magnetic field and it adds a lot of weight.

Hi, Do you have a model number of the Fanuc motor ????

[engnerdan]

Hi, Do you have a model number of the Fanuc motor ????

Attachment 260826

This is a pedestal mount motor, not a face flange like the Novakon uses. So I have designed an adapter flange to attach to the end of the motor and allow me to bolt this motor in place of the factory motor. Additionally the cooling fan on this motor is 3 Phase, and being I don't have any 60 Hz 3 phase power I am going to adapt a 220 VAC muffin fan in its place. I know its a lot of work but for me its part of the fun.

Is someone wanted to go with the face flange style like G59 posted, than a new top plate for the mill would be the best plan. I modeled one up already. It was 7" wide and 11.5" deep.

Attachment 260828

Attached is the Solidworks file for the motor plate that should fit the motor G59 is looking at.

-Dan

[engnerdan]

A quick update on the enclosure design. Below are a few screen captures of what I have come up with so far. I still have not designed in the sliding door track. Right now the enclosure sides are 44" tall. If you look closely you will notice that the left side chip pan is much shorter than the right side one. I decided it was worth the effort to cut off 8" of the left chip pan that is not being used. With space being in very short supply in my garage this 8" will only help. This should still leave me with about 4" of space between the table and the enclosure.

The enclosure is made up of 7 panels including the door. All construction will be from 1" X 1" X 16 ga square steel tube or 1" X 1" X 1/8" angle. I am thinking at this time 18ga or 22ga sheet metal for covering the frames of each panel. I have some scrap 3/16" polycarbonate sheet I will use for the windows. I will end up cutting the factory front sheetmetal off at 8" high so it is flush with the tops of the chip pans. I am also extending the rear panels in close to the mill column. My plan is to then make a form fitting piece of sheet metal that will extend off the rear panels to make contact with the column of the mill. This will simplify the rear of the enclosure and will keep the back of the electrical enclosure from being used as part of the enclosure.

Attachment 260870Attachment 260872Attachment 260868
Attachment 260874Attachment 260876Attachment 260878


-Dan

[G59]

Nice. I wish I had the time you have to do all this, plus work or school and wife/family. Very nice work that you do. The cad model of the Torus on Grabcad is priceless for anyone wanting to mod their machine.

On an other note, I posted previously that the Yaskawa motor I modeled weighed in at 62lbs, it should of read 92lbs. Heavy is an understatement.
Total length of the motor is ~15 inches long (including protruding shaft) and 6 3/4" square.

[engnerdan]

So my machine has been down (torn apart) for weeks. It started with a damaged ball nut on the Z axis from my Z+ crash months ago. I checked it over when it happened, but the damage was inside (cracked ball). After getting that fixed I decided it was as good of a time as any to look into my Y axis backlash which was measuring 0.0013". I started with looking at the angular contact bearings as there was a notchy feeling to them. After replacing them the backlash got worse 0.0018". Out of frustration I tore the entire Y axis apart, every last part. I tool the bearing blocks apart, the ball nut mount off the saddle, the ball nut was completely disassembled. I then cleaned every part and started measuring. In addition to the inspection I modeled every part in solidworks. What I found was the stationary bearing end (with the angular contact bearings) was majorly hosed up. The surfaces the bearings seat on were not square and parallel to each other, not even remotely. The pictures below so the exaggerated relation of the bearing seating surface from the top and side view.

Attachment 266554Attachment 266556

I did the best I could to rework the bearing block.

Attachment 266558

After re-cutting the bearing pockets the bearings are not a press fit in the block but they are still snug and being these bearings carry no really radial load I am not worried about it. The nest move was to gage the ball screw assembly. With the stationary end assembled and the support end slid on the top surface of the ball screw was gaged on a granite surface plate. Much to my surprise the measurement was withing 0.001 over the entire length.

Next task was to gage the mill side of the assembly.

I used some gage blocks to measure the distance between the front bearing pad and the ball nut mounting pad.

Attachment 266560

Then I checked the front and rear bearing pads against the right side dovetail. This was a very difficult measurement to take and has some error in it. But it seemed both pads were at the same height, as they should be.

Attachment 266562Attachment 266564

The last two items were the ball nut mount and ball nut. The ball nut mount was not square and the bore was off a bit which resulted in it pushing down against the ball screw. Lucky this was easy to fix, a small amount of careful machining and I had it all trued up and square. Unfortunately I was a little too excited to put the mill back together and I forgot to take pictures of this. After it was all assembled I was able to slide the table/carriage onto the ball nut (ball nut unbolted at this time) and have the ball nut slide right into the bored hole in the ball nut mount with no bumping the sides and no resistance. For the ball nut I just super cleaned it and bought some larger ball bearings to take up the small amount of wiggle it had. I ended up buying 0.1248" balls from ebay.

A check last night of the backlash shows it is now at 0.0006" and the axial displacement of the ball screw is down to 0.00025 from over 0.0005" before I rebuilt the Y axis. I consider this a very acceptable amount of backlash.

Backlash check on Novakon Torus Pro - YouTube
Ball Screw Movement Checking - Novakon Torus Pro - YouTube


Then one last bit to share for now, my HMI with load meters for each axis. I will warn you there is a terrible resonance in the X axis about half way through this video. This needs to be addressed, it happens at exactly 50 IMP feed rate and I think it is a result of poor alighnment on the X axis ball screw. I will soon be giving it a tear down and rework it like I did the Y axis.

KFLOP with Automation Direct PLC and HMI - YouTube

[mklotz70]

Thanks for taking the time to post this up!! I know what to look for now when I check mine.

[engnerdan]

Over the last couple weeks I made some progress on the enclosure, mainly on the machine side of things.

Attachment 269426

I am starting off with a 1/4" X 1 1/4" Cold Rolled steel strip that I am welding all around the existing chip pans and sheet metal parts. This will be the strip I bolt through to attach the panels that make up the sides. On the left side you will notice the strip that runs from the front to the back is not on the left edge of the chip pan. I made the decision to cut off about 7" of the chip pan just to have a bit more room in the garage. I still will have over 6" between the end of the table and the enclosure panel. Plus the end enclosure panel is removable if needed. Right now most of the strip stock is only tack welded on. I need to improvise in a couple spots where the sheet metal was not cut straight and I still have not figured out how to get sealed seams if I powder coat all the parts. If I paint these parts I will use an automotive panel bonding adhesive to seal all the seams between the welded parts before paint.


I did have a short term brain fart while welding the strip stock on. I was not thinking and I started welding the entire seam between the front sheet metal and the strip stock. Well the welding distortion (or weld shrinkage) got the best of me. Over 40 some inches the center of the panel pulled 3/8". With some selective heating and some relief cuts I was able to get it back to straight but that was avoidable mess up if I had been thinking at the time.
Attachment 269430



Last night a friend and I welded up 5 of the 7 frames for the enclosure panels. Its not much to look at but this is the left end panel and the right front panel (obviously on the wrong side) clamped in place.
Attachment 269428

[mklotz70]

Are you familiar with Lab Metal? It's a metal putty that can be powder coated over.

Lab-metal

[engnerdan]

Are you familiar with Lab Metal? It's a metal putty that can be powder coated over.

Lab-metal

Yes, and I was planning to use that as a filler. But it will not work as an adhesive.

[mklotz70]

ah.......I thought you just needed a filler for some gaps.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Dan,

Do you happen to know the combined weight of the head, spindle, motor, and carriage? My gas strut has died, and I want to get a replacement, but don't know the force rating (the old one is not marked....).

Regards,
Ray L.

[engnerdan]

Dan,

Do you happen to know the combined weight of the head, spindle, motor, and carriage? My gas strut has died, and I want to get a replacement, but don't know the force rating (the old one is not marked....).

Regards,
Ray L.

Ray,
The gas spring I removed from my machine has a sticker on it that says "800 N" which is 179.85 lbs. I can also go into my solid model and fix all the material properties and get an approximate weight of the head from that too. But that will be a day or 2 before I have time to dig into it. If you want my gas spring, it has never been used by me and its yours for the cost of shipping.

-Dan

[AUSTINMACHINING]

Dan,

Do you happen to know the combined weight of the head, spindle, motor, and carriage? My gas strut has died, and I want to get a replacement, but don't know the force rating (the old one is not marked....).

Regards,
Ray L.

Ray,
what happens when the strut dies ?. Does the head drift down when powered off (or slam down )?.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Ray,
The gas spring I removed from my machine has a sticker on it that says "800 N" which is 179.85 lbs. I can also go into my solid model and fix all the material properties and get an approximate weight of the head from that too. But that will be a day or 2 before I have time to dig into it. If you want my gas spring, it has never been used by me and its yours for the cost of shipping.

-Dan

Dan,

Thanks for the offer. I'm actually interested in finding an off-the-shelf replacement. McMaster has ones I've used in the past that are good quality, and only about $20 each.

Regards,
Ray L.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Ray,
what happens when the strut dies ?. Does the head drift down when powered off (or slam down )?.

Yes, when the drives power down, the head starts falling. Not fast, but could be a real problem for the ATC if it happens when the arm is engaged with the carousel. I suspect my strut was weak from the start. When I first got the machine, it had steppers, and I didn't have this problem. When I switched to servos, it started happening, and has gotten worse over time. Nobody else has reported the problem, so it must just be a bad strut. No biggie, as they're very cheap.

Regards,
Ray L.