[R.M.S.]

Has any one gotten a chance to download and use Mach 4? Was curious of what people thought of it . Better or worse than version 3. I know personally I was planing on switching to flash cut because of the few bugs in Mach 3 . It seemed like I was fixing more problems then making parts some days.
I just downloaded it and will be playing with it soon enough. I hope its all that Ive read about I know it has been a long time coming.

Mach4 - Newfangled Solutions

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I've had it for about 10 days, and hope to have one of the first beta motion controllers for it for testing very soon. First, it's not done - what you can download does not include ANY hardware driver, so cannot control a machine. That said, the new user interface is a big step up from Mach3. But the real improvements are not really visible. The code is basically ALL new, with less than 1% of the original Mach3 code reused. The architecture is VASTLY improved, which should make it more stable, reliable, and FAR more maintainable. It is VASTLY more configurable as well, and complete new UIs can be created using many different languages and tools. Not just a unique UI development tool, but existing tools like Microsofts .NET languages and others. The scripting interface has FAR more power than before, and should have FAR fewer of the "quirks" and idiosyncracies of the Mach3 Cypress Basic scripting. Perhaps most important from the functionality stand-point is that the plug-in interface, especially for motion controllers, is completely different, and much, MUCH simpler. There should be some really nice, stable motion controllers coming for Mach4.

However, all this "new", also means pretty much everything you know about Mach3, you'll have to forget. It uses all new languages and interfaces, and plug-ins, screensets, macros, brains, and other Mach3 customization will not work at all with Mach3. Personally, I think this will be a MASSIVE improvement overall. But it will take time to develop support (screensets, motion control plug-ins, etc.), and to get the new code base debugged and stable. But that process should be a great deal faster and easier than what it was for Mach3. I think a year from now, maybe sooner, Mach4 is going to be very nice, and once you've made the adjustment, you'll never look back.

Regards,
Ray L.

[bodini]

I know early on Mach 4 was planning on moving to Lua for scripts (dumping Cypress VB). Is that still true?

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I know early on Mach 4 was planning on moving to Lua for scripts (dumping Cypress VB). Is that still true?

Yes, the scripting language in Mach4 is Lua.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Fastest1]

It is very different. Not enough info to know better or worse.

[arizonavideo]

Got the demo.

Looks different. One of my ever nagging complaints is the file window was a non resizable window for loading gcode, it was like being in a 1990 DOS box. The new windows are re sizable.

I do hope they have fixed the weak backlash comp and the acceleration curve function. I will look closer but I don't know how to check the acceleration curve without running a machine.

This is good news, I have been waiting a long time for V4

[ger21]

From what I was told in the past, acceleration will still be trapezoidal like in Mach3. At some point when Mach4 is in a completed state, there are plans on making a new trajectory planner for it with S Curve acceleration. Based on the way development of Mach34 seems to be going, I wouldn't expect to see a new trajectory planner for at least 2-3 years, unless things start moving a lot faster.

[R.M.S.]

I've had it for about 10 days, and hope to have one of the first beta motion controllers for it for testing very soon. First, it's not done - what you can download does not include ANY hardware driver, so cannot control a machine. That said, the new user interface is a big step up from Mach3. But the real improvements are not really visible. The code is basically ALL new, with less than 1% of the original Mach3 code reused. The architecture is VASTLY improved, which should make it more stable, reliable, and FAR more maintainable. It is VASTLY more configurable as well, and complete new UIs can be created using many different languages and tools. Not just a unique UI development tool, but existing tools like Microsofts .NET languages and others. The scripting interface has FAR more power than before, and should have FAR fewer of the "quirks" and idiosyncracies of the Mach3 Cypress Basic scripting. Perhaps most important from the functionality stand-point is that the plug-in interface, especially for motion controllers, is completely different, and much, MUCH simpler. There should be some really nice, stable motion controllers coming for Mach4.

However, all this "new", also means pretty much everything you know about Mach3, you'll have to forget. It uses all new languages and interfaces, and plug-ins, screensets, macros, brains, and other Mach3 customization will not work at all with Mach3. Personally, I think this will be a MASSIVE improvement overall. But it will take time to develop support (screensets, motion control plug-ins, etc.), and to get the new code base debugged and stable. But that process should be a great deal faster and easier than what it was for Mach3. I think a year from now, maybe sooner, Mach4 is going to be very nice, and once you've made the adjustment, you'll never look back.

Regards,
Ray L.

I hope its a lot less quirky. I love Mach , the community everything about it . When your running parts and stuff starts acting up . My two biggest complaints, my probe(every now and then it acts weird when probing) and mach switching or not know what plane its in after solidcam specifying the plane , has to be the biggest pain in the but. Ya the whole backlash compensation hasnt been great but Ive always been able to make due.
Im sure with any software I would find something to complain over.
Im really happy Artsoft decided to start the process of releasing 4 .
My wife said I was a "GEEK" because I let out a little giggle of some sort when I was downloading it . I cant wait to see the new screen , and user screensets. It will be a nice breath of fresh air.
Even though I cant really use it Im happy to at least look at it.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Got the demo.

Looks different. One of my ever nagging complaints is the file window was a non resizable window for loading gcode, it was like being in a 1990 DOS box. The new windows are re sizable.

I do hope they have fixed the weak backlash comp and the acceleration curve function. I will look closer but I don't know how to check the acceleration curve without running a machine.

This is good news, I have been waiting a long time for V4

Backlash comp should be not only better, but much more consistent across different motion controllers. In Mach3, backlash compensation is implemented in the motion controller, while in Mach4 it is implemented in the Mach4 kernel. That, combined with the far simpler motion controller plug-in interface should make for a much better experience overall.

Acceleration is still linear/trapezoidal, with infinite jerk, just as it is in Mach3. S-curve acceleration may be on the ToDo list, but I would not hold my breath, as it makes the trajectory planning, and handling things like FRO much, MUCH more complicated. It would be a really major undertaking to implement properly, and really has little value until you get into really high-speed machines. Personally, I can't imagine it being with the trouble. Besides, it would certainly only be implemented on the far more expensive "Commercial" version of Mach3 that would be solde only to system integrators and machine manufacturers, and not in the "Hobby" version.

Regards,
Ray L.

[ger21]

Personally, I can't imagine it being with the trouble. Besides, it would certainly only be implemented on the far more expensive "Commercial" version of Mach3 that would be sold only to system integrators and machine manufacturers, and not in the "Hobby" version.

Hopefully that's not the case. S-Curve acceleration would be very beneficial to a huge number of router users, who make up a very large percentage of Mach's user base. More and more hobby routers are capable of 500-100ipm speeds, where S-Curve accel will make running them much smoother. It also helps low end machine where low acceleration causes CV issues. With S-Curve accel, you can follow the commanded path much more accurately without having corner rounding issues due to CV issues with underpowered or inexpensive machines.

[TOTALLYRC]

When Art was playing with S-curve accell (Tempest) it worked really nice on my Bridgeport mill.
The benefits were noticeable when cutting a boat hull with lots of curves. The other nice thing it allowed for higher rapids without increase the max following error.

[tahustvedt]

I like what I see in the demo. I found lots of weird things, which I hope are there either because I haven't figured it out or because the demo is incomplete. I chose metric in the config, and the work coordinates are metric, but machine coordinates are still inches. The DROs in the toolpath screen don't work.

It seems much more streamlined than Mach3 to me, and less cluttered and archaic. The toolpath window is super smooth, even with a 10 MB G-code file, though I'm testing on a faster computer than my CNC controller.

Looking forward to trying it out for real. I'm not looking forward to having to waiting for plugins for my VFD and MPG.

[R.M.S.]

The demo 'Looks" like flashcut to me appearance wise.
I will be buying a copy when its officially goes sale.

[ger21]

The demo 'Looks" like flashcut to me appearance wise.

To me it looks like they copied Mach3 using the newer controls. Way different than Flashcut, imo. I think they want to keep it looking familiar to existing users.

[R.M.S.]

Does any one know , will the new mach support closed loop servos or newer closed loop steppers? My next build I would like to do some type of closed loop system.
Also what bout post processors? Will they need to be changed and or modified?

[ger21]

No, but yes.
Mach4 will not close the loop in the software.

But most closed loop steppers close the loop in the drive, and take step/dir signals just like any other steppers.
Most servos drives do the same thing.


Some codes may no longer be supported, so if your post used them, it may need to be modified. I read that G28.1 is going away, but I don't know what else.