[ReefkeeperCNC]

Hello,
I have purchased a cnc router and the controller appears to be older. The machine is pro built, but I think the company has gone under. This looks to be older tech. The controller will move the steppers with it's on board x y z options, everything appears to work. It uses a parell port cable. I have it hooked up to an old e-macine P2 Celeron 500. I know, not the best but it works.
I am trying to use Mach 3 software. I can not get the pc and the controller to talk. I have looked at settings and such and tried all that looks possible....no luck. This is my first cnc.
The machine has a tag: "Phoenix-GS CAD MGF by Magnum Technologies". In a previous post I was told it was a controller made by a company called Centroid. Based on the looks of it, pre windows 95.
Should I ditch this controller or is there hope? The machine apears to be well designed and I need to get it working asap.
I have lots of photos if anyone thinks it might help.
Ed

[sanddrag]

Do you have the pin configuration for the parallel port on your machien controller? Perhaps try TurboCNC to see if ou can get anything out of it with that program.

[per.e]

Hello.
1. I dont think that you can run Mach3 with a cel. 500 it must be over 1Ghz.
2. Mach2/3 can only work with Win XP/2000.
Bets regards.
Per

[ReefkeeperCNC]

Do you have the pin configuration for the parallel port on your machien controller? Perhaps try TurboCNC to see if ou can get anything out of it with that program.

Hello,
I can open the box and read the board. I'm a basic plug and play PC user so not sure what I am looking for. I could get a picture.
thanks

[ReefkeeperCNC]

Hello.
1. I dont think that you can run Mach3 with a cel. 500 it must be over 1Ghz.
2. Mach2/3 can only work with Win XP/2000.
Bets regards.
Per

Hi,
Actually the Mach 3 software is installed on the PC. I do not place on keeping this PC but it has XP on it. I have another PC in the works with an Athlon 3000XP. I'm getting the feeling that the controller I have is so old that I might need to buy a new controller. It's almost like the parrallel port connector of the controller is dead.

[NC Cams]

There have been issues with regard to folks who try to drive parallel ports with XP - something to do with LPT port drivers not existing or working in real time mode with XP. I essence, the parallel port IS dead, at least as far as your situation is concerned.

Same problem occurs when folks "upgrade" from Win 9x to XP. Stuff quits working for god knows what reason.

XP is at best 'psuedo-DOS' and not at all friendly with some devices that worked fine with "legacy" O/S's that ran on DOS software, especially those driven by LPT port.

I'd look HARD at driving the machine with an older technology box with a Win 3.11 O/S or the like - maybe even DOS 6.22. Your life may be much simpler.

Keep in mind that some DOS stuff is speed limited to 166mhz or less. Thus a 500 may be talking too fast for your "legacy" machine to keep up.

You may have better luck using more "like generation" PC's and O/S's to interface with the machine. We have to scour the used computer shows all the time to find PC cores to service some of our older machines.

[per.e]

I have worked with Mach3 and win-xp for over 1 years now and i dont have any problems at all so i problably you don´t have tried Mach3 at all.
Best regards.
Per

[NC Cams]

This particular member is NOT the first one to have XP/Mach issues nor is the first one to have XP/paralllel port issues. The trick is, what should he do???

Per: If you have worked with XP and Mach 3 for over a year, then you should be able to tell ReefkeeperCNC how to make his machine work, no??? What, pray tell, should he do???

I'm only reporting what I've seen other have problems with under similiar circumstances/symptoms - as in non-communicative parallel port that should otherwise be working.

There could be a number of other issues besides those that have popped up with XP - and DOS incompatibility is surely one, especially if a newer Win machine is talking in a bit stream that is unrecognizeable to a "legacy" based system.

There are also hardware issues. As in if the parallel port is a low power 3.3 volt unit and the machine he's trying to talk to wants to see a 5 volt signal. Even if the software is working, the voltage signals are not compatible and you'll never get them to work and if you do, not reliably.

The problem is not in figuring out why Mach does work with XP in any particular instance but, rather, why this member's system ISN'T working.... and certainly, the "legacy compatibility" issue is probably a root cause....

[per.e]

Iam sorry NC Cams that i was writing a little bit of "hard".
I am not so very good to explain myself even as i over 45 :-)
You are right about what you are saying and we have to help him to make the mashine to work.
There are a lot to help in the Yahoo groups and in the MachX forum where you can find more people with a better english than me that can help you.
Sorry for my "inglish" :-)
Per
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/
http://machsupport.com/forum/index.php

[unterhaus]

So you have the manuals for this machine? If you don't have the pinouts for the parallel port on the back of the control, it probably doesn't have the Mach pinout. It's also possible that the db25 port that you think is parallel is actuall a serial port. The RS232 standard used db25, IBM changed it to use DB9. There is no such thing as a plug and play CNC control.

[NC Cams]

Welcome to the exciting, profitable, humbling and challenging world of resurrecting orphan technology equipment. Sadly, it could end up being your worst nightmare.

First, if you don't have documentation for the machine, you better try like the dickens to GET SOME. The info therein could be invaluable to getting it to "talk" with/to a PC and work thereafter.

Keep in mind that just because a machine has a DB25 plug, that does NOT mean that it is a plug and play interface to either a parallel or serial port of an equivalent pin count.

Goodness knows what sort of pinout logic the machine designer used/had in mind when they designed the interface. If the plug is connected to a "standard" parallel or serial port reciever/driver chip, it should be easy to confirm if you trace out the circuit.

If it is a "house numbered" prom or some other custom IC, you'll have a real hard time trying to figure out the communication scheme and/or connection logic.

Why do an odd pin out???

Simple, to be able to sell a supplemental and special interface cable for extra profit so that someone could attach a regular PC to it. Same sort of logic for the use of a custom interface chip. Simple way to protect your hard and software from unuathorized hack or copying.

You'd better hope that the machine is NOT looking for a hard lock. A hard lock key is custom coded and virtually impossible to get around. Again, hardlocks are used to protect sofware and/or hardware from hacking or unauthorized copying.

First try to find/get some documentation.

Then try to get a PC of a comparable generation of O/S and speed. Your machine may simply not be able to talk to/with an XP box for reasons already cited.

At that point, it should be easier to have the machine talk back and forth using roughly the same generation of hard and software. At least you won't have hardware issues to contend with.

Make sure the machine is NOT looking for a software interface in the PC that acts as a "decoder ring". Such software would take generic G or whatever code needs to be presented to the controller in the manner it is expecting it and in the proper bit sequence - this is especially critical if the communication port is a serial instead of a parallel port.

Keep in mind, however, that without documentation or proper sofware (if software is needed for communications), you just might have an expensive paperweight that can't be talked to with a contemporary computer anymore.

And finally, just because the Mach software can be made to run a CNC fitted with a stepper or servo via industry standard parallel port communications linking, that does NOT mean that the Mach control logic sent via the parallel port is a "universal language" that anything/everything that involves CNC will understand.

Just because the stuff sold today is plug and play, NOT everything that can be run by a computer ever was that way.

In the earlier days of CNC (and today to a large extent still), CNC interfacing can be more of a plug and pray situation at best and a plug and trouble shoot until you're ready to scream situation at worst.

Again, find some documentation SOMEWAY or SOMEHOW. Then check out the Mach support groups listed in a prior post.... In the mean time, good luck...

Note to PER.E: no problem and no offense. Sometimes the message board doesn't translate my English so well and it is my only written and spoken language....

[unterhaus]

I was trying to reverse engineer this from the picture, and I realized that it must be a serial port. There are two 6 pin chips, one at the upper right, one at the upper left. These are almost surely optoisolators. As there are only two, I'm thinking that they must be transmit and receive. Also, if you look at the traces, the area around the connector is obviously isolated from the rest of the board. I'm pretty sure the Centroid machines used serial.

[ReefkeeperCNC]

So you have the manuals for this machine? If you don't have the pinouts for the parallel port on the back of the control, it probably doesn't have the Mach pinout. It's also possible that the db25 port that you think is parallel is actuall a serial port. The RS232 standard used db25, IBM changed it to use DB9. There is no such thing as a plug and play CNC control.

The back of the machine where the "parallel port" is is labeled RS232....what exactly do I have?

I'm getting ahold of a P166 tommorrow with windows 98 installed in it.
Should I try booting into DOS? I know windows XP dumped Does, actually it happened with 2000 right?

Really apreaciate all the brain storming guys!

[ReefkeeperCNC]

Iam sorry NC Cams that i was writing a little bit of "hard".
I am not so very good to explain myself even as i over 45 :-)
You are right about what you are saying and we have to help him to make the mashine to work.
There are a lot to help in the Yahoo groups and in the MachX forum where you can find more people with a better english than me that can help you.
Sorry for my "inglish" :-)
Per
http://groupyahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/
http://machsupport.com/forum/index.php

Really appreicate all the thoughts and help!

[Al_The_Man]

I was trying to reverse engineer this from the picture, and I realized that it must be a serial port. .

If your right, the other clue is that if the port is a 25pin male, then it would be RS232, if female then printer port.
Al.

[ReefkeeperCNC]

I was trying to reverse engineer this from the picture, and I realized that it must be a serial port. There are two 6 pin chips, one at the upper right, one at the upper left. These are almost surely optoisolators. As there are only two, I'm thinking that they must be transmit and receive. Also, if you look at the traces, the area around the connector is obviously isolated from the rest of the board. I'm pretty sure the Centroid machines used serial.

hmmm......I'm a little lost in the terminology but if you'd like, I'll unscrew and photo anything that might help. I just lack the vocabulary but am a quick learner. I was just learning to assemble PC's when this was made (found date for 1992)

[ReefkeeperCNC]

So you have the manuals for this machine? If you don't have the pinouts for the parallel port on the back of the control, it probably doesn't have the Mach pinout. It's also possible that the db25 port that you think is parallel is actuall a serial port. The RS232 standard used db25, IBM changed it to use DB9. There is no such thing as a plug and play CNC control.

Sorry forgot to add, no paperwork on this machine, picked up on auction..figured worse case, I will buy or assemble a new controller. It would be a while before I could do that so hopefully, there is a way.

[ReefkeeperCNC]

So you have the manuals for this machine? If you don't have the pinouts for the parallel port on the back of the control, it probably doesn't have the Mach pinout. It's also possible that the db25 port that you think is parallel is actuall a serial port. The RS232 standard used db25, IBM changed it to use DB9. There is no such thing as a plug and play CNC control.

Sorry forgot to add, no paperwork on this machine, picked up on auction..figured worse case, I will buy or assemble a new controller. It would be a while before I could do that so hopefully, there is a way.

[ReefkeeperCNC]

If your right, the other clue is that if the port is a 25pin male, then it would be RS232, if female then printer port.
Al.

I am following what you mean on dino PC's. I found a date on this for 1992 and it is labeled RS232 There is also a swtich next to that labeled "eng" and "cnc"

[NC Cams]

Unless I'm mistaken, Mach software is parallel port based and RS232 is serial based. Thus, I doubt it would communicate with your machine if my understanding is corect.

Thus, the controller is going to expect a data stream that meets and conforms to a certain protocol - both in timing and data orientation. What that is may not be readily reverse engineerable.

Looks to me like documentation is going to become a critical factor sooner rather than later. I'd start looking ASAP.

Maybe someone out there in the community has a controller like this and documentation and communication software laying around looking for a new home.

If there is someone who has the stuff, they could do a member a BIG favor by forwarding copies of same to the member in-need.

Life does become too short when some problems arrise.