[Bob La Londe]

I found this read on Wikipedia interesting:

Alloying elements[edit]
The main alloying constituents are copper, manganese, and magnesium. A commonly used modern equivalent of this alloy type is AA2024, which contains 4.4% copper, 1.5% magnesium, 0.6% manganese and 93.5% aluminium by weight. Typical yield strength is 450 MPa (65 ksi), with variations depending on the composition and temper.[1]

History[edit]
Duralumin was developed by the German metallurgist Alfred Wilm at Dürener Metallwerke Aktien Gesellschaft.

In 1903, Wilm discovered that after quenching, an aluminium alloy containing 4% copper would slowly harden when left at room temperature for several days. Further improvements led to the introduction of duralumin in 1909.[2] The name is obsolete today, and mainly used in popular science to describe the Al-Cu alloy system, or '2000' series, as designated by the International Alloy Designation System (IADS) originally created in 1970 by the Aluminum Association.

I was thinking that most modern aircraft aluminum alloys are either 7075 or a 2000 series. 7075 is super strong, machines easily, and welds like crap. I don't know much about any of the 2000 series alloys as I have never used them.

[Bob La Londe]

After the sale support. So far pretty darn good. Paul answers the phone, and answers questions. Even sometimes questions he has already answered. He has also taken the first step and called me to help out when I have raised a minor point here on cnczone. Maybe its partly because I am blogging the experience here, but if so he hides it well. Always sounds friendly and helpful. And his help IS helpful. He has even told me where to buy stuff directly a couple times that he could easily have just sold to me. That's not at all expected, but certainly appreciated.

I still have not set the mill on the stand. I was struggling with how to bolt it down and seal my coolant pan given there is a hollow in the base below the mounting bolt holes. How was I going to trap sealant in the right place. He had an answer pretty darn quick. Use 1/2" threaded rods as studs. (see picture) I put double nuts on them to make it easier to tighten them up. I'll pull the top nut if there isn't enough room for it when I look under the mill. The studs should have an added advantage of making it a little easier to align the mill when I lower it onto the stand.

[handlewanker]

Hi, one thing you can guarantee and that is you'll get a leak at the bolt due to thermal expansion/contraction and vibration....I'd suggest using a sealant like silicon (one that won't react with the coolant) to keep an active seal under the nuts and around the bolt threads.

If you can seal the edges of the base to the tray with silicon sealer to prevent swarf and coolant puddling there and so causing corrosion from electrolytic action....aluminium and cast iron will form a good battery and corrosion will occur.

I expect you'll mount the mill on rubber pad vibration dampers so the different metals won't form a battery and cause corrosion, but any steel swarf left in the aluminium tray will corrode immediately, and brass and copper are even worse.

If you're going to use an oil/water based coolant you'll get lots of oily sludge forming in that area around and under the base of the mill and it is the hardest job to get it clean which is one of the major causes for bacterial growth and coolant deterioration.

I think a synthetic coolant, the clear green stuff, would be best for that situation, but you'll still get lubricant contamination in the tank and at the bottom of the coolant sump.
Ian.

[Bob La Londe]

The sealant I used is some nasty stick stuff that will survive for years under water. Even saltwater. Its a semi permanent marine sealant called 3M 5200. If you look at the previous picture you will see it was already sealed around each bolt. I use this stuff for sealing the holes for outboard mounting bolts (among other things). I suspect the 250 Pro XS Optimax on the back of my bass boat puts a lot more stress in day on the water on the holes thru the transom than those mill mounting bolts will experience in a lifetime.

Seal the base to the tray? Are you thinking no coolant would get in thru the base ever? It would just be a trap for coolant with no drain.

If and or when the pan springs a major leak I'll worry about it, and maybe make one out of stainless, but I had the aluminum on hand and I wanted to get going not wait another couple weeks for metal to come in.

All the rest of that great advice is mute since the machine is mounted in the tray and its not coming out any time soon.

I use Koolmist 77 at high concentrations for coolant now, but I am thinking of switching to Trim since the Koolmist sometimes stains aluminum slightly brown even with pure distilled water to start with.

[Bob La Londe]

I am pretty sure I know the answer, but just to double check... There is an oil line coming off the front of the head that is only about a foot long and not connected to anything. My assumption is its just a vent for the head, but I want to make sure.

[Charter Oak]

You are correct. That is just a "breather" for the head.

[Bob La Londe]

After mounting the mill and moving the stand, I can definitely say I wish I had spent the extra $200 for the stand with casters. We mounted the mill by suspending it and moving the stand and basin around under it to line things up. We hung the mill from the round collar as directed, but we were not able to find a position for the table that got the mill to hang level. I finally got it on the studs by lowering it unto 4" blocks, and judicious use of part of the crate as a pry bar to force things into position and lift the mill to get the blocks out.

After mounting I was able to position the whole thing roughly with the bucket forks on the tractor, and then use a straight pick as a pry bar to shuffle it into position.

Now off to Homedepot again for all my primary electrical hardware, outlet, breaker, wire, cord, plugs, etc, etc...

[Bob La Londe]

CRASH! Hopefully, Paul will get back with me in the morning with some feedback, but I just crash the Z hard.

Mindful of the warnings I made sure all the cables were connected before starting the machine. Z would barely move before it faulted. X & Y where backwards, and then X started faulting. The spindle wouldn't start. I shut it down and looked over all the connections again. When I started it back up Z shot to the top of travel and slammed into the mechanical stop shattering the pretty little clear acrylic cover over the belt drive.

I wonder if the XML file for this machine was not loaded?

With the machine shut down I cranked the Z down by hand, and restarted. Same result, except I had enough travel to stop it before it crashed again. Same result every time. I checked continuity of the encoder cable and its fine. I would guess maybe a bad encoder or a bad setting. I suppose there could be a bad wire between the connection console and the servo driver. I'll check that next.

~~~ 40 minutes later ~~~

Ok, there was a bad ground somewhere between the connection console and the servo driver, but even connecting the encoder directly to the driver didn't help. I also tried a different driver. Am am thinking bad encoder at this point.

I have some spare encoders although of a different type. I guess its time to try one.

~~~ Another 15 minutes ~~~

Darn. The largest shaft adapter on my spare encoders won't fit. Not sure what to try now. Sigh! Well, I got X & Y working properly atleast. They zip along easily at 200ipm and 20iss.

Well, I suppose I can do 2 axis machining if I can get the spindle to start. LOL.

[Bob La Londe]

~~~ And now almost an hour later ~~~

I got the Z axis working finally. After finding the bad encoder ground between the connector and the servo driver I forgot to plug the power back in to the Z. LOL.

The Z definitely will not run or accelerate as fast as the X or Y will, but that's really no big surprise. It was the same on my Taig and on my Hurco and even on the Chinese no name router. (The new Z I built for the Hurco is actually faster in both speed and accell.) The X & Y won't accell as fast as I said either in real life. If just one or the other is moving they will do 200 and 20, but if they both start at the same time the system faults. I do a lot of 3D so all axis starting at the same time is a certainty. I back them all off to 15 i/s/s and I can start all three axis at the same time. X&Y at 200 and Z at 150. Its acceptable. I have not checked any of the settings on the Geckodrives yet, so its possible they are set a bit hard or the current limit is set a little low. I think I'll leave them alone until I make some cuts.

No to figure out the limit switches and get them configured.

[Bob La Londe]

Oh, for those who might like to know. When I came back in the office to sit down, I had received an email from Paul asking about several things and suggesting several things to check. I could tell from his tone (if you can get a tone from an email) he was really concerned that I had an issue, and wanted to do anything he could to help. I like that.

[Bob La Londe]

I've gotten a little frustrated with homing and limits. This isn't the first machine I've setup with proximity switches and its not the first one I setup with homing and limits. The proximity switches seem to work just fine as limit switches, but for homing only the Y axis seems to work. They show as activating on the diagnostics page, but the machine keeps going. Weird as all get out. For now I have homing disabled and I am manually kissing the limits and setting home one axis at a time via the diagnostic page individual axis homing.

So, I decided to do my first actual cut on this new machine. I threw a couple vises on the table, squared them up rough with a machinist square and clamped them down. Then I did a .005 surfacing cut with a 1/2" 4 flute end mill on some 6061 aluminum bar stock. Its not to bad, but after the first two passes it reminded me I had not trammed the head yet. I have a nice scalloped surface on the piece of bar. LOL. Twice during the cut I heard a change in pitch of the various noises like the machine slowed down slightly, but I don't see any tell tails of that in the tool marks on the surface. Maybe I'm a little over sensitive to the various things that can go wrong. LOL.

So, far I was little frustrated with the bad ground, and I am more than a little frustrated with homing, but the machine is operational. I can not say yet if I would buy another one, but I have not ruled it out yet either.

There are two things I for sure wish I had done differently, and one the jury is still out on.

1. Get the stand with casters.
2. Get it with a belt drive (and I probably would have if I had known it was available.)
3. The jury is still out on the Mach 1 tool change system. The TTS system might have been better for me.

I am definitely going to need some kind of way covers.

[joeybagadonuts]

Bob La Londe,

I still can't believe you purchased a cream puff instead of another Hurco, must have been a malfunction in the brain control housing group. :wave:

Live from Burbank home of the crispy cruller,
JoeyB

[handlewanker]

Hi, I just noticed in the two photos that this is a manual mill with CNC characteristics added to make it work as a CNC......... never while I breathe will I consider a manual mill retrofit as a CNC mill, and not with dovetail slides either.....that's just my preference, so no insulting slur intended.

I have to wonder where and at what price, being straight out of the box and virginal new, you could buy equipment that malfunctions so badly at the start.

If this had been a Chinese import...(maybe it is and Charter Oak are only importers of cheap Chinese junk..... as the saying goes), then the label would apply as cheap American junk too.

Was it the price that made you decide to buy that particular model?

How does it compare to the TORMACH 1100 price wise?
Ian.

[Randall]

When you start off like that why dont you check it yourself. Since your information is limited don't knock it.
Randy

[Bob La Londe]

When you start off like that why dont you check it yourself. Since your information is limited don't knock it.
Randy

You talking to me or one of the detracters?

For the others... a new Hurco is WAY out of my price range, and after running both servo and stepper machines I wanted a servo driven machine. As to dovetail vs other... well, it is what it is.

[Bob La Londe]

Found the homing issue. The Z and X proximity switches were swapped. I swapped the pin settings in Mach 3 and all was good.

The difficulty in finding the issue is that for a limit switch Mach doesn't care which limit is tripped, but for a homing switch it does. They can be configured to come in on the same pin or each on different pins. If all on the same pin you just set the same pin for every configuration value. If on different pins they will work for limits, but not for homing if you get the pin numbers swapped. I found it almost by accident as I turned settings on and off to test the exact behavior one axis at a time.

Worse, in the diagnostic page it looks like it works properly because the indicators all light up. They are just the wrong indicators - sort of.

Its a pretty basic mistake and easy to overlook, but I bet they never do again. I spent 68 minutes on the phone with Paul's tech guy checking one thing at a time before we flashed on the problem. They were very patient and never pushy about it as we worked through everything together.

[Charter Oak]

Bob,
Thank you for your patience through this process. You are absolutely correct, this will be added to our pre-shipment check list. The replacement cover is on the way. Please let us know if there is anything else that you need help with.

-Paul

[Bob La Londe]

Now to install a USB extension cable so I can transfer code onto the machine more easily.

~~~ DOH! ~~~

There are USB ports on the back of the keyboard. No need to run a cable. LOL.

[handlewanker]

Hi, as I only want to be a bystander noting the obvious.......why was the machine not run by the manufacturer before shipment, or was that too much to expect?

Damage to components that malfunction from transit jars and jolts can be expected, but misplaced components and wiring terminations is asking too much to condone for 5 star product worthiness........if the company in question are not aiming at 5 star product quality, then expect another fire sale as the unsold products pile up at the door.

If this is what to expect with home grown commercial products, don't go pointing the finger at the Chinese goods and machines.....that is for those that automatically label Chinese goods as crap.

BTW, just for the record, do Charter Oak actually make these machines or just retrofit imports with CNC bits and pieces to be in that market?
Ian.

[handlewanker]

When you start off like that why dont you check it yourself. Since your information is limited don't knock it.
Randy

Hi, I will check it out both for origin, design attributes and pricing.....as soon as I can find the C. Oak advert that used to keep popping up in the corner of the page, or perhaps Google it and get the full low down.....just for the record.
Ian.