[MarkRavingMad]

Hey all, Total Newbie here,

I've got some machining experience from school and a former employer that let us use the machine shop for personal projects in off hours.. Now I'm looking to get my hands on a CNC and start working on a long list of hobby projects that's been building up since I changed jobs and therefore lost access to my former employer's machine shop. I'm looking for something under $3000. My projects range from plastic to steel,

So in short, I'm looking for as much Mill as I can get for $3000. (Top three priorities are the ability to mill steel, accuracy, and working volume).

I'm totally okay with buying a manual mill and a (mostly plug and play) conversion kit, but I'm mainly interested in getting the most flexible machine for my money.

Right now, I've narrowed it down to a Little Machine Shop solid column X2 conversion, similar to the one outlined here, or a Taig Deepcut.

With tooling and software licenses where applicable, they come out to about the same price, and like i said, since this is the precursor to hobby work, I don't mind putting in some elbow grease, I know the X2 has a larger work volume, and is more open to modification (A plus in my mind), but The Taig has a few nice features (integrated spindle speed control, etc.) So I'm having trouble making up my mind.

I guess I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about comparing these two approaches/products. Thanks.

[Wiggles84]

I think you could get into a G0704 for that price range.

Machine ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~$1300
conversion kit from arizonavideo ~~~ $600 (not sure if he has any at the moment)
Electronics ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ $600 (570 oz steppers, MX3660, PSU, other things)

That would put you about $2500. I'm sure there are a few other things that could be put in there, but what I listed would get you started off pretty good I think?


Andrew
(waits for someone with more experience to come in and (flame2) me!)

[MarkRavingMad]

I'm admittedly not taking the cheapest route with the LMS build I've mapped out (It becomes one of those "Well I'm already spending so much money, might as well not skimp on X" things. Another part of the build is the need to spend $200 to $300 on some basic tooling, $100-$200 on shipping, and probably another $100 on miscellaneous things like cable conduit, way covers, and stepper motor end caps (when it comes to my hobby projects I can be a bit of a perfectionist, and that makes everything more expensive). The electronics on the LMS build also is being spec'd for future growth to a 4th-axis. I forgot to mention that the ability to expand or modify my system in the future is also a big draw, and that has me leaning toward the LMS build.

I've mapped out the prices and the LMS build comes in at $2850, and the Taig comes out to about $2900 (With all the stuff listed above factored in where applicable), and both price points seem reasonable to me. I guess my question therefore: assuming equal price, which machine would one consider more accurate and robust in terms of capability?

[cowanrg]

I wouldn't bother with the X2. A lot of people have them and seem to do OK with them, but they're really not great mills. so some searching about how they're nearly impossible to keep trammed, you basically have to adjust them after every few hours. The head isn't rigid, the controller tends to blow, etc. I would really take the suggestion and just upgrade to a G0704.

All the extra stuff you're adding to the X2 (way covers, conduit, end caps, etc) really won't help it cut. if you're more concerned about how the machine performs when milling, get something bigger. also, the Y travel on the X2 is extremely limiting.

[109jb]

I too would recommend something like the G0704 for your use. You mentioned needing to mill steel. Well, any of these machines will mill steel, but doing so efficiently will require as stout a machine as your budget will allow. You don't specifically say what type of parts you are going to make except for the mention of steel. If making smallish parts then then maybe the smaller machines would suffice, but if you go too small/flexible you will be wishing for a different solution. Having been a machinist for a living, even the G0704 is to me on the lightweight side for machining steel. It does a pretty good job though. I myself will be upgrading to a RF-45 size machine or a custom built linear rail machine at some point when my hobby budget will allow. Back to your choice though. The G0704 has a ton of possibilities in regard to modifications. These range from simple mods for increased travel, to a bit more complex motor upgrades, power drawbars, and even automatic tool changers. Hoss is a member her eon the CNC Zone and has a website and DVD available for this g0704.com . He lays out a progressive way to convert to CNC to spread out the cash outlay, starting with a system using the stock lead screws and advancing through to ball nuts, etc. His site is well worth looking at and you can benefit from his extensive tinkering to know what will absolutely work. He also has an X2 site that you should explore. Hossmachine Homepage

[antichip]

Listen to these guys.

Table travels are almost as important as machine rigidity. And having I assume 0 programming experience could prove troublesome when working with the smaller limited capacity machines.

[MarkRavingMad]

Actually, Programming experience I've got. Granted, it's not G-code experience, but still. My machining experience has all been on a manual Bridgeport.

Until you mentioned it, I hadn't considered the G0704. It looks to me that a G0704 would require a bit more on the DIY end than I was planning for the LMS SX2 to meet my price point, but I'm not necessarily opposed to that.

Am I correct in understanding the G0704 comes with a built-in DRO? that's a big deal for me. I learned on and have only ever used mills with DROs. iff The G0704 has one built in that makes me a lot more comfortable using "out of box" before I put the CNC on it, which gives it a lot of utility if my plans change.

[cowanrg]

As someone who knows computer programming as well as g-code, they're not really all that similar.

The G0704 will require a tad more work than just buying a LMS with a kit, but there are kits for the G0704 too.

The G0704 does not inherently come with a DRO, but there is an option for it through grizzly, it has a different model, and you will pay extra money for it. With CNC, the usefulness of DRO is a lot less, seeing as your computer does all that. It would be just for reference, but not really useful otherwise.

[MarkRavingMad]

I know there's limited utility in a DRO once the machine is running on CNC, but as I said, if the unit has a DRO, I'd be much more comfortable using it manually before I add CNC components. for example, I would want a DRO if I was going to do the Hoss phased approach where I would need to machine the motor mounts myself. It also means that if I want to hold off on buying the CNC stuff, I have a machine I'm comfortable using in the meantime.

I guess I got the impression that there was a DRO from the listing on the Grizzly Website where they have "DRO on spindle" listed under features.

If this is incorrect and there is a seperate unit with a higher price for a DRO, could someone post a link?

[hoss2006]

Grizzly is correct the dro on the g0704 is for the quill only. the g0759 is the version with a full 3 axis dro.
Grizzly.com
Hoss

[cowanrg]

The DRO on the spindle is just for the quill, not for the Z axis really. It's not a full DRO for all 3 axes.

This is the one with the full DRO:

Grizzly.com

It really sounds like you're maybe not ready to build a mill from scratch. Were you thinking of buying a pre-build mill? Building one, even with a kit, is not simply just plug and play...

[MarkRavingMad]

Well, honestly, a straight plug and play situation isn't what I'm looking for. I would prefer a degree of assembly instead of just getting an out of the box unit like the Taig. I definitely don't want to (and don't pretend to be ready to) build a mill from scratch, but relative to some other projects I've handled in the past, I feel some of these conversion projects to be in my wheelhouse. That said, I'd rather buy a conversion kit than instructions.

I like the G0704 for it's bigger motor, better travel, and what feels to me to be cleaner design, and it's not priced that differently from a well equipped LMS SX2, however, there aren't much for kits that I've been able to find, and the ones I have run a bit more expensive than I'd like. I'll admit to being a Newbie which is why the X2 felt like a good scale machine to learn on, even if it lacks utility. However, if anyone knows of any good conversion kits for the G0704, I might have to give that another look.

[109jb]

Like I said, Hoss's plans show a stage 1 CNC conversion that is pretty basic and uses the stock screws. The parts needed are pretty simple and can be made on a manual machine easily. This is the absolute lowest cost conversion for the G0704 as it only requires some basic mounts for the motor. Check out Hoss's video belowto see the phase 1 conversion. Once you do a phase 1, you can use the mill like that for a while and then use the mill to make parts for itself for the ballscrew conversion. Hoss's plans are only $45 which is cheap for a newbie that is unsure about how to approach a conversion on their own.

G0704 X Axis CNC with Stock Screw.MP4 - YouTube

[antichip]

I may be way off base here. But in the grand scheme of things a cnc conversion is about as easy as it can get for someone hoping to get into machining and or mechanical design. It consists of some mounting plates/blocks and a little ingenuity. And just coming from oldschool taught. Learn to use dials marking fluid and you calipers and a scribe so as not to rely on a digital device that could fail when you really need it. Either way it will be your machine so make it yours.