[dlsCNC]

Hi --- first time poster.
I'm pulling my hair out with this problem that happened at the worst possible time in the middle of a big job--too late to outsource, so I'm hoping to get some troubleshooting help up here. I'm running Mach 3 on Windows 7, with a K2CNC KG-5050.

First a little back story. Like many posters up here I've had a hard time getting help from K2, and even less because I bought the machine used. Being that it was only two years old I didn't expect as many problems as I've encountered, but it doesn't help that I'm a complete newbie and got the machine with the intention to learn how these things work. I've learned a lot and even done a couple big jobs on the machine, successfully, but just barely. I've had a lot of problems with the machine creeping around small amounts during cuts and especially while sitting idle, throwing off my registration. My partner seemed to have fixed this by adjusting the debounce, and we suspect that there are electrical issues in our building. The biggest problem is the little red light on the controller box coming on for no apparent reason. I often have to hit the enable button a bunch of times right when I turn on the controller before the red light fully stays off. The worst scenario is usually that I'd have to shut everything down completely and restart, and everything would be fine. Unfortunately I put off finding the source of the problem for the sake of getting through work on a busy schedule.

Today was different, and maybe my neglect caught up to me. After a few annoying hiccups, involving some creep and random shut downs, restarts--- not a good day-- the machine completely shut down near the end of an hour long cut. I attempted to raise the z-axis and it was jerky, and then stopped, never to move again. I've tried everything I can think of--restarts, reverting to past settings, unplugging and replugging everything back in -- but no movement at all. Mach 3 shows movement on the screen, but the machine isn't going anywhere... and actually the one revealing thing is that the red light no longer comes on at all except when turning on the machine.

If anyone can suggest any troubleshooting suggestions, I'd really appreciate the help.

[warrenb]

Go in to the I/O screen and see if one of the limit switches are getting a signal. It could be as simple as a loose wire.

[dlsCNC]

Hi Warren, thanks for the suggestion. I should have mentioned that I've been keeping an eye on the diagnostic page and no limit switch has been triggered.
I finally got the thing to move around but it was reversed, then jerky and then it seemed like one motor on the y axis was firing but not the other, and moved the whole thing off square.
Today when I came in I fixed that problem and got it back to square, tried to start it up and then the whole thing ran as if there was no problem at all. I finished the 4th panel and left it for a few hours while I prepped the rest, and now nothing is moving again. None of the steppers are moving nor the spindle when I hit f5, on the keyboard or on screen.

[dlsCNC]

Now yet another development. I loaded some gcode and ran it, and it started moving. I immediately stopped it with the space bar as it was in a bad position to run anything, and was able to move everything around on all three axis. Then after a couple minutes it jammed up again. Then the left ballscrew moved but not the right throwing the whole thing off again. The whole system is kind of shaky during jog, on every axis, which leads me to think that its the signal coming from the controller, not any individual wire. Nothing showing up in diagnostics.

[ger21]

Sounds like you have an electrical issue. You're going to need to go into your control box, and start troubleshooting. You need to let us know exactly what hardware you have in that control box. Pictures can help too.

[dlsCNC]

Hi Ger -- thanks for responding. I suspect thats exactly right.

The latest development-- I'm realizing that it almost ALWAYS works after a good 24-hour resting period. If I use the keyboard jog too much the problems start to arise, so I gently set up my machine op and its running right now getting through my fifth panel. Its a little risky but I might hold off opening the box until after this big project if I can manage to get through it. In the meantime, I'm working on getting an electrician friend to come by and see if he can see anything wrong with my setup leading UP to the machine. I've experienced brownouts in the building and I think I might need a noise reducer or something for my long 220 line, which runs a good 100 feet from the outlet.

In the meantime, here are some of the specs from the machine, pulled from the original invoice:

5050-FR-EB -- 50X50" Travel ballscrew router, Y axis uses two ballscrews on the outside of the machine. Comes standard with 5"Z, all axises come standard with rigid linear rails and high tolerance ballscrews. Backlash .001. Industrial Home Swtiches.

5050-CON-HS-CC-20... 3) Axis Controller Box. 4 Gecko Drivers, Y bottom axis uses in sync of 2 motors and 2 drivers. On X , Y and Z (4) 305 oz/in, 60W, 24VDC, 2800 max RPM, 3.5 A. Close Loop Servos with 1000 line Encoder. The encoder has CAT 5 plugs, (parallel, USB, Power cord), E-stop hardware with 4 feet length wire with plugs to control box, Home Switches, and Cable Carriers. (Newly added relay output only. This is controlled by Mach2 - Mach3 using Mcodes. Does not include the On/Off router spindle relay hardware

HSD-1073-140 4HP (3KW)..18,000 max RPM..ER 25 Collet type..Digital VFD..Pre-Programmed..220V..Additional ABBA Bearing Blocks..Model 1073-140..External Fan (Quite)..One or three phase..On/Off feature with Mach 3. Program controlled....00025 inch spindle run-out..

Mach3-Soft Mach 3 Control Software and license. (Reads G-Code - Controls CNC). Window XP, 2000, and Vista. Processor (1.00GHz) or greater. Memory 256MB DDR SDRAM. Hard Drive 20GB. USB. Parallel port on mother board or PCI slot. All background software to be remove. No laptop installation. Please call for details.

COMPUTER
MB=Atom processor
HD= 250GB
Ram = 1G DDR2 800mhz
OS= Win7 Home pre 32 bit or better.
19" LCD

Sorry if its too much info. Just included anything that might be even remotely relevant.

[ger21]

It could be that one of the servo drives has faulted. What are the servo drives connected to? Is it running from the parallel port, or USB?

[dlsCNC]

Hi Gerry,

The computer connects to the controller via parallel port.
I had definitely considered a single drive faulting, but the fact that every axis seems to have problems led me to believe it was something more involving the signal.
If you have any suggestions for diagnosing where the problem lies, I might open up the box soon. The machine just had its daily shut-down-- this time the spindle shut off mid-cut and I caught it before it did any damage. I also could not get the keyboard jog to work all day, but the onscreen jog did.

Thanks

[dlsCNC]

Actually maybe I mis-spoke -- the computer is connected to the controllers using parallel ports. The servos are connected by individual cables coming out of the controller box--here are a couple images of the connections coming out of the controller.

Attachment 246828
Attachment 246830

[dlsCNC]

tips anyone? sorry getting a little desperate.

[LeeWay]

It sounds like it could be electrical noise and that is difficult to diagnose. Heat could also be an issue especially given what looks to be tight quarters where the controls are.

Then again it could all be related to the control computer. Win 7 is not the best platform to use for Mach 3, though I do use it on two machines with no issues. What other software is installed on the Mach computer?
If there is anything other than Mach 3, then that could be a contributing issue. Disable any wireless or network connections. Only the most robust and tuned systems will be able to use that stuff. Disable all screen savers, hibernation, power savers, etc. Use a wired keyboard and mouse. Wireless anything can get you into trouble. here again, I do use a small wireless keyboard on one machine like a pendant with no issues.
The causes of such issues could be many without a doubt. It could be multiple issues or a simple single one. Welcome to the World of cnc troubleshooting.

The good thing that will come from this is the knowledge you will gain about your machine and controls, so the process, even when not productive, isn't fruitless. Hang in there.

[dlsCNC]

Thanks for the suggestions Lee,

I agree I think its electrical. I put a small fan in the control area and opened it up so more air was getting in and out, and I still had a shut down. Unless some previous overheating caused some permanent damage to the electronics then I doubt heat is the issue.

The computer has nothing else on it, but then again it came along with the rest of the system. It would be a good idea to wipe the whole thing but I'm hesitant to do so as it was set up by the K2 people originally, and I'm not sure if and how the OS might have been customized. In any case I'd have to do that after this current job is over. No wireless or internet at all, and I swapped out a wireless keyboard for a wired one suspecting the same issue with noise. A friend suggested I get a power conditioner for the 220 line, but with the sea of options I don't know where to start. Here's the link he sent: Power Conditioners - Line Conditioners - Grainger Industrial Supply

Thanks for pointing out the positives--I'm definitely already learning a lot trying to troubleshoot, but balancing productivity and learning the electronics in and out is a real challenge. I've gone a really long way learning how to make things with the machine when its working--and it would be great to focus on the final product. All this hardware stuff fries my brain pretty quickly.

[ger21]

Servo systems are typically set up so that if one drive faults, they all shut down. The drives should have an LED to indicate a fault. When it's not working, take a look at the drives to see if they are faulted.

Intermittent electrical issues can be very difficult to diagnose.

[dlsCNC]

Thanks Gerry -- I didn't know that about the motors and I just confirmed it with K2.
Sounds like that can definitely be an issue. No LEDs on the motors that I can see unfortunately.
Had almost zero movement today. I was able to jog like an inch at 2% speed and then it stopped.

[ger21]

The LED's should be on the drives, not the motors.