[Jamf2]

I am in the process of deciding what CNC Machingeine center to buy. Both machines are hybirds that they can be used as a Point 2 Point.

I am seeking any input anyone may have on either machine.

I have seen both in action and like both machines prices are compareable and what they can do are comparable.

Thanks

[ger21]

I don't know anything about either, but I can tell you that Holz-Her has pretty good support. I know their CNC support guy (Kevin), and he's pretty good. (He installed our older Holz-Her, made by Masterwood)

[cerealkiller2]

Have you seen www.biesseamerica.com
I started working with them back in April, as a tech. So, far I have been very impressed with their equipment! Take a look, we will be at the IWF in Atlanta, in a couple of weeks might be worth a trip to see all the different machine run through their paces!

[ger21]

Biesse does make a good machine, fwiw.

[Robocut]

I would suggest getting educated on the physics of the machines number 1. What attributes contribute to their rigidity. Are they open architecture? Are their proprietary components? What is the local service capable of handling? It is not a matter of 'if a machine will go down' it is a matter of 'what happens when it does?'. I would recommend taking the time to go and talk to end users, owners of the machines, without the "salesman" in tow. The research you do up front will save the potential for buyers remorse. I went and looked at these the manufacturers web sites and see considerable differences. If you are unclear have the salesman for each machine point out what exactly is apples to apples and what is not. Get yourself some meat and potatoes to help you with your decision.

[bradodarb]

We have a huge Masterwood Atlas and brand new 5ax Biesse rover C 6.5

The masterwood is a beautiful machine but we have had no service since ther is no real Masterwood company in America now.

With the new rover C platform Biesse has finally entered into the heavy-duty arena (as far as point to points go, the Arrow was a heian inspired brute)

We have had nothing but problems with the Biesse from the start as it is the first 5ax in Norh America and is essentially a prototype. I am sure that when
all the bugs are worked out it will be beautiful machine because the tech support is top-notch.

I have worked for several shops and have been fortunate to have programmed and machined on the best offerings from Germany, Italy, Japan, USA and Taiwan.


At my current shop, when the $.5 mil + Italian sportsters break down (often)
I am thankful of our 12 year old Anderson monster of a router. It does't have all the current options but it works everyday smoothly and flawlessly.
It is insane that you can buy three of these machines for the price of one Italian or German machine that weighs a third of one Andi.

If I had a shop that could only have one router, Andi definitely has more bang for the buck.

Go to ex-factory.com and see how many people are getting rid of their Andi's
vs. the other makes, and the Andi's there are either a result of a repo
or to make room for a new Andi.

:boxing:

[Robocut]

Bradodard,

Sorry to hear about your Biesse problems. Being a guinea pig for software or machines can take it's toll.

I find it interesting that you seem to "know" the reasons why the virtual mountain of used ANDI machines exists. Sounds like "sales" smoke and mirror talk to me. Shouldn't one of the goals be to get a machine that will last? I look forward to the day a machine is paid off and still performing like the day it was bought....then moving on to other needs.

There is a reason weight is so critical, which is part of the desire to dampen the vibration. Just as there is a reason to have steel in places that some manufacturers place aluminum.

It is well worth the time and effort to do comprehensive research before buying a machine, so as to buy correctly upfront. This will help prevent having to sell off a poorly performing or supported piece of equipment. Learn the physics of the style of machine you are considering. Take the time to go visit the people who own machines. Go visit the factory support center in the country you live. Talk to the operators as well as the owners of the equipment. Get a complete list of owners not just a few "cherry picked" to impress you.

I hope you get the bugs worked out. I wouldn't let them go too long as that potentially can cost you money and your business.

[2buzzwood]

I agree with Robocut. I pays to talk to users about reliability and support. Also, I have found that if you are buying software to use on the router, the software salesman can provide you user lists of companies that are utilizing the software and the machine/machines. This gives you a "third-party", less-biased resource on the routers. (No one wants to directly give you a list of unhappy clients!) This is particularly helpful if you're choosing between brands. Good Luck!

[kermit285]

I just had my Onsrud 120 P10 machine controler rebuilt as a result of ambent dropoff these machine are sensitive to electricel noise be carefull controler cable must be sheilded and machine well grounded as for quility there fine and fast the software is cad/cam suport is fine but expensive in person most problems can be addresed via phone no cost

[kermit285]

I just had my Onsrud 120 P10 machine controler rebuilt as a result of ambent dropoff these machine are sensitive to electricel noise be carefull controler cable must be sheilded and machine well grounded as for quility there fine and fast the software is cad/cam suport is fine but expensive in person most problems can be addresed via phone no cost

Call Chris @ CR Onsrud ,HTTP;// WWW.CRONSRUD.COM