[Kevgerber]

Hello all!!

We are looking into purchasing a Okuma Multus machine in the near future. I am in the stages of convincing my boss that this would be a good machine for us. We do a lot of setup on multiple Lathes and Mills. We are not a production shop and I think we would save a lot of setup time and $$ if we could get one of these machines to replace the older mills and lathes that we have right now.

So, does anybody have and advice on these machines??? Good or bad, I'll take anything. What are your experiences with them? Do they live up to the hype?

[fordav11]

We have 3 Multus machines and they are the worst CNC machines we have encountered. Un-user-friendly, always breaking down, known problematic issues, slide covers that break after just 2 years and have to be replaced at $10k per machine, throwing tools out etc etc. We have a Macturn bought new in 2012 and it took Okuma almost 1 year to get it working and even then it runs for only a short time then something goes wrong. Its a piece of junk.
If you want big troubles with a new machine buy a Multus. If you want something reliable look elsewhere.
Of course the Okuma fanboys will have another point of view but if you search here for Okuma Multus problem posts you will read the truth.
There are many posts about Okuma problems. You can read some here......
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/okuma/...s-restart.html
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/okuma/...0w-fiasco.html
Or just search "Okuma Multus" and do some reading

[Kevgerber]

Wow, I wasn't really expecting that. We have a lot of Okuma machines here and we have never had any serious problems with them. I'm not an Okuma fanboy by any means, I'm just surprised to hear that they have so many problems. We haven't ever used one of their Mill/Turn machines, so that's why I was asking. I'll have to do some more investigating. Thanks for the information!!

[jamessiffel]

Fordav11 is pretty right, i ran a macturn 250 and we had two multus b400, my macturns slide covers crumpled, four times i think, astronomical cost for okuma replacement parts. Multus did throw tools if not set up in the control under the tool atc page. They are lightweight machines abd do not take hits well like the older lu's and lb's. Problematic tool changers, and way too much hassle to keep the coolant system clean. But i also ran a new lu300 simulturn which was a dream, best machine besides a mori nl ive ever run. The multus and macturn are sister machines, they even share some manuals, they are nice with all the options they have but they easily can be down. I liked running the macturn but wouldnt want to again, id take a mori.

[tea hole]

We have 3 Multus machines and they are the worst CNC machines we have encountered. Un-user-friendly, always breaking down, known problematic issues, slide covers that break after just 2 years and have to be replaced at $10k per machine, throwing tools out etc etc. We have a Macturn bought new in 2012 and it took Okuma almost 1 year to get it working and even then it runs for only a short time then something goes wrong. Its a piece of junk.
If you want big troubles with a new machine buy a Multus. If you want something reliable look elsewhere.
Of course the Okuma fanboys will have another point of view but if you search here for Okuma Multus problem posts you will read the truth.
There are many posts about Okuma problems. You can read some here......
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/okuma/...s-restart.html
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/okuma/...0w-fiasco.html
Or just search "Okuma Multus" and do some reading

It is possible that being derogatory to those who like thier Okumas, including their multus machines, as "fanboys" is counterproductive. I think it's fair to say anyone here is most probably a grown ass man and deserves some respect weather you agree with them or not.

As a "fanboy" of Okuma, I can say that I am not a fan of the early multus machines. Say, 2008-2011 for generic numbers.
Specific issues with the machine are outlined above, but more specifically, my qualms, in addition to anything listed above, are:
Compound wedge slide for Y axis leaves less Y axis travel than is typically desired (though it does have it's benefits)
Earlier P series controls, though far beyond anything at the time, were, in my opinion, slightly over taxed by the time CAS, Auto Comp and other things were added. The owners/operators I deal with generally have better luck with them if they don't add too many peripheral programs consuming processor speed.
I feel there is a lack of support for this product from Okuma and their distributors. Not that it's bad, but you have to have the right guy to fully help. Sometimes he's just unattainable.

The compound Y does add some benefits when you get into relatively heavy machining. If you machine with the main spindle in M04 as opposed to M03, there is just mechanically less area for movement or deflection in comparison to some designs i've seen, such as the overhead B axis, with the X traveling parallel to the earth and the Y being perpendicular. The mechanical advantage will be with the part as opposed to the machine.
With the macturn, it also allows for a slant bed ways with true pinch turning from a multi tasking machine. If the machine is similar to the one mentioned above, with the X axis parallel and Y perp, while the lower turret is on a slant, the "Pinch" will be off by some angle, generally 30 degrees or so.

I feel the smaller machines have undersized main spindles, but if you use the machine within it's limits, it doesn't pose an issue. It's just that the limits are much smaller than what you would expect with the floor space the machine consumes.

The older machines required tools to be put in the back of the machine, which is frustrating, while I believe they are fixing that on the next generation.

All of that^ said, I feel before you consider ANY multitasking machine, you should start the conversation by asking if you have any personnel who can TRULY operate/program/setup the machine. Qualified personnel is about as hard to find as a trustworthy politician anymore. That being the case, having someone who is "pretty good" take one of those machines on is a huge risk to me. I love to see parts complete in one machine, but if I don't have access to the personnel capable BEFORE i buy the machine, I wouldn't buy it regardless of make. On that note, I would recommend that if you have limited personnel, and all they know is Mori, Mazak or *insert generic machine name here*, I'd look at that first. I wouldn't operate thinking that if a person can run a Mori, that they can a Mazak or so on. Basically, fit the machine to the people.
I would argue that there are many more people with positive Multus/Macturn experiences, but since they aren't on here complaining, their opinions don't get heard. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and all. Why would you be reading here specifically about the multus or any other multitasking machine unless you have issues?

Just my, well, $1.46 cause that's way more than $.02.

[jamessiffel]

I will give it to tea hole that having a machinist with a brain in their head helps, and choosing the machine that best fits with your work envelope ,programming style, and existing machines is a no brainer. I too LOVED okuma, but i didnt have to lose money when they were down frequently being an employee. That shop hired an ex Gosiger service tech full time just to handle the constant problems. I only listed the problems i had that fordav mentioned, my actual list is long. Tea hole added to that list of cons and is right about the machine only being able to properly handle smaller parts and loads despite its footprint, as well as the controls slowing down as more functions are used. I could type two characters ahead constantly with the control always playing "keep up". There was also a flaw with the macturn where it could not safely use the optional "tool retraction", okuma admitted to this. At times it seemed the machinists where teAching the techs about the true abilities of the machines. While okuma and siemens "open architechture" platform is great and has its time and place in certain shops, fanuc is much more powerful of a controller. I swore up and down by okuma, until i ran a Mori NL.
As far as derogatory, i disagree with tea hole, i think fordav is spot on, just like the "apple vs microsoft" or "dodge,chevy, ford" debates, their are definitely people whose brand loyalties blind them to a certain degree about which machine tool is the better buy. Ive run many different makes of many different types of machines, and used fanuc, osp, and siemens all on a highly skilled level and of course they all have their advantages and disadvantages, but once your hands on with them all you see what is the better performer.

[tea hole]

To clarify, my point was calling someone "boy" could be seen as derogatory, if not racist depending on your locale. Whereas using "Okuma lovers" or "Okuma faithful" or anything else practically would be less so. Being called "boy" is insulting to me. After a police officer pulled me over and asked "know why I pulled you over boy", I replied "not a clue pig".
I have also run Fanuc Siemens OSP Haas (basically Fanuc) Mitsubishi and a brief heidenhain stint. OSP is my drug of choice. If only so I don't need to find a PCMCIA to Compact flash adapter anymore. I also disagree it is "more powerful". I would say it is powerful in different ways. For example I've been on a 16i all week. W/ 32 common variables. On an HMC with 4 sided pallets 6 parts per side. As well as only having work offsets up to P48. I also find using system variables infinitely easier than a Fanuc on OSP. But I digress.
Point is we both have our choices and reasons for such, and those reasons only apply to us, and I assume have contributed to our respective successes.
For someone looking to buy a machine, you'll have to decide what your people are capable of utilizing since, as you can see James and I obviously have different opinions and if management stuck us with a machine we didn't believe in and trust, we'd be pretty grumpy.
With that knowledge, it's pretty easy to determine if a Multus is for you. Or any multi function lathe for that matter.
Again, my $.02.

[fordav11]

Okumas have known issues but almost every machine has some issues even Moris. My comments are based on facts. Maybe we just got a lemon and Okumas may actually be good. I can't form any other opinion because we only have lemons.
Anyway, fanboy is a term widely used on the net and is just a bit of fun so lighten up dude. if you want to call me a Mori fanboy go ahead because it'll flow like water off a ducks back.

[Green Button]

We have 2x Multus B400W. We did lot of research when buying machines. I think you also have only 3 choises in multifunction lathes.
Okuma, Mori & Mazak. All else are way behind these manufacturers. We did find that Okuma had best price/quality ratio.
I dont want to arque which machine is best. You have to look what kind of parts you have to do and then decide which machine is best.
I would still say that Multus B400W is very good & accurate machine.
And prepare in all marks that these machines are expensive to repair. So take very good care about maintenance.

EDIT: If you have to do lot of setup please choose as big as possible toolmagazine.Dont save here.