[SCzEngrgGroup]

Any ideas ?

Aside from a buggy cheap Chinese motion controller and/or plug-in?

Regards,
Ray L.

[onocyclone]

That is all fine, I think it's within the software.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

That is all fine, I think it's within the software.

Prove it. Uninstall the plug-in for the motion controller, and I bet it works just fine. That would largely rule out a problem in Mach3, since all the code that determines basic parameters, like which direction to move, would be common to both configurations. Was it not working correctly BEFORE you installed the new motion controller?

Regards,
Ray L.

[onocyclone]

Yes it wasn't working correctly before I had the new controller. It was just the same with the other controller. I can get it to work properly but the Jog works in the wrong directions. Example, if I want the table to go forward I press backwards and it goes forwards. This way the machine moves along with the code as it should.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Then it sounds like you have your jog buttons programmed wrong....

Regards,
Ray L.

[moto52000]

Now I'm curious. Isn't the table supposed to move opposite the keys when jogging? I've been thinking of cutter to move all this time. Hit the up button the table moves tword you but the cutter is moving away (+y). Have I had mine set up wrong all this time. Hope not, took me forever to get this straight in my head....

[hoss2006]

Now I'm curious. Isn't the table supposed to move opposite the keys when jogging? I've been thinking of cutter to move all this time. Hit the up button the table moves tword you but the cutter is moving away (+y). Have I had mine set up wrong all this time. Hope not, took me forever to get this straight in my head....

The way it should work is,
right arrow key, X DRO moves positive, table moves to the left.
up arrow key, Y DRO moves positive, table moves to the front.
page up key, Z DRO moves positive, head moves up.
Hoss

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Now I'm curious. Isn't the table supposed to move opposite the keys when jogging? I've been thinking of cutter to move all this time. Hit the up button the table moves tword you but the cutter is moving away (+y). Have I had mine set up wrong all this time. Hope not, took me forever to get this straight in my head....

It's a matter of opinion. The CNC convention is all movement is from the viewpoint of the tool. So, moving X+ means the tool moves right (for example, on a ganty mill), or the table moves left (on a bed ill). In both cases, the tool moves to the right w.r.t. the workpiece. Most machines are setup to follow this convention with the jog keys, so hitting right-arrow should move the tool right, or the table left. Some machines are exactly the opposite - Novakons, for example. That setup drives me crazy. But, it's easily changed by simply re-assigning the hotkeys in Mach3 Config->HotKeys.

Regards,
Ray L.

[onocyclone]

The way it should work is,
right arrow key, X DRO moves positive, table moves to the left.
up arrow key, Y DRO moves positive, table moves to the front.
page up key, Z DRO moves positive, head moves up.
Hoss

No mine is definitely the opposite of this apart from the Z

[hoss2006]

Yours is wrong then.
The results of any cam program I've ever used has the tool moving on the part going from left to right as a positive move. To achieve this the table must move to the left. Look at the layout of the jog buttons in Mach 4, they are the same as what the arrow keys should be.
Hoss

[109jb]

No it isn't. It is just different. As long as the movement creates a right hand coordinate system it will work fine. Many factory machines are set up with table moving right as positive, table moving toward column as positive. Working in commercial shops have seen machines set up both ways, but either way works and creates parts just fine. The only difference is that the part is spun on the table 180 degrees. With a machine set up for positive right and toward the column you can have the fixed jaw of the vise as y=0 and the right side of the part as x=0. For me this is more comfortable as a right handed person placing parts into the machine. It also has the benefit of having the fixed jaw as your zero position on the part rather than the moveable jaw. This can be a big benefit in secondary operations where tolerance stack up can creep in, thereby keeping a good reference that is always in the same spot (fixed jaw) without having to touch off each and every part.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

It also has the benefit of having the fixed jaw as your zero position on the part rather than the moveable jaw. This can be a big benefit in secondary operations where tolerance stack up can creep in, thereby keeping a good reference that is always in the same spot (fixed jaw) without having to touch off each and every part.

The part origin can be put wherever you want it.... My machines are setup in the conventional manner, and I typically have the origin for parts made in a vise set to either corner of the fixed jaw.

There is no "right" or "wrong" here, just common convention, and what is most comfortable for the operator. But having the machine setup in the more conventional manner has no effect whatsoever on which jaw your origin aligns to, or the accuracy of your parts. That is all entirely under your control, regardless of the machine setup.

Regards,
Ray L.

[hoss2006]

No it isn't. It is just different. As long as the movement creates a right hand coordinate system it will work fine. Many factory machines are set up with table moving right as positive, table moving toward column as positive. Working in commercial shops have seen machines set up both ways, but either way works and creates parts just fine. The only difference is that the part is spun on the table 180 degrees. With a machine set up for positive right and toward the column you can have the fixed jaw of the vise as y=0 and the right side of the part as x=0. For me this is more comfortable as a right handed person placing parts into the machine. It also has the benefit of having the fixed jaw as your zero position on the part rather than the moveable jaw. This can be a big benefit in secondary operations where tolerance stack up can creep in, thereby keeping a good reference that is always in the same spot (fixed jaw) without having to touch off each and every part.

yup, our Matsuura moved opposite of the Mach 3 norm but far as I can tell he's not running a Matsuura.
Hoss

[109jb]

All I'm saying is as long as the coordinate system is a right hand system it is not "wrong", just different. As already stated and confirmed by Hoss, there are factory built machines that work the other way. There really is no "convention" when it comes to this. There are factory built machines running both ways every day. Since this is a home built CNC machine it is really up to the builder/operator which way he feel more comfortable with it, but neither way is "wrong".

As far as where part zero is and it being under operator control, I don't disagree, but there are cases where having the part zero coincide with a FIXED part on the machine, for example the fixed vise jaw, absolutely will make it easier. As an example, one of the shops I worked at made parts for laser guidance of color printing presses and the tolerances were crazy tight. We got the engineers to dimension the parts and tolerance them from lower left on the drawing. Had we been using a machine that was table left and toward operator as positive the part origin would have been on the moveable jaw of the vise. The overall part dimensions were +-0.010, but there were many features internal that required +-0.001 and a few +-0.0005. To run those parts in a machine with table left and toward operator would have required touching off each and every part due to overall dimension variance. Since we were using the opposite, table right and away for positive, we were able to use the fixed jaw as zero and tighten the vise with a torque wrench without touching off each time. This is just an example. On a machine like this it just makes the part rotated 180 degree as if you held the print upside down. You could also buy an expensive rear fixed jaw vise.and use table left and toward the operator and have the same result, but we did not need to.

[hoss2006]

Yeah, I can and sometimes do set the origin of the part in the CAM software to the right rear when it's a part held in the vise to be able to indicate the fixed jaw.
It makes no difference, the part sits in the vise just like it looks in CAM and I don't have to flip it 180 degrees.
A positive X move still moves the table to the left.
Hoss

[SCzEngrgGroup]

As an example, one of the shops I worked at made parts for laser guidance of color printing presses and the tolerances were crazy tight. We got the engineers to dimension the parts and tolerance them from lower left on the drawing. Had we been using a machine that was table left and toward operator as positive the part origin would have been on the moveable jaw of the vise. The overall part dimensions were +-0.010, but there were many features internal that required +-0.001 and a few +-0.0005. To run those parts in a machine with table left and toward operator would have required touching off each and every part due to overall dimension variance. Since we were using the opposite, table right and away for positive, we were able to use the fixed jaw as zero and tighten the vise with a torque wrench without touching off each time. This is just an example. On a machine like this it just makes the part rotated 180 degree as if you held the print upside down. You could also buy an expensive rear fixed jaw vise.and use table left and toward the operator and have the same result, but we did not need to.

Maybe you need better CAM.... It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever where the origin is in the drawings. In CAM, I can move the origin to wherever it needs to be to do the machining properly. I rarely bother to put the drawing/model origin at any particular location. It will often be on some key feature in the middle of the part, where I started building the model, so useless when machining. When I do the CAM, I decide where the best place is to put the origin for machining, typically based on how I'm holding the part, and create a new coordinate system based on that location and orientation. I NEVER have to rotate or locate the part on the machine based of any constraint in the drawing - I put the part where it is best for machining, oriented in whatever orientation it is best for machining. When using a vise, the reference is ALWAYS one corner of the fixed jaw, whether that's to the front, rear, or side, and it makes no difference whatsoever in the precision of the part.

Regards,
Ray L.

[onocyclone]

I always set a coordinate point on the top left corner in a rectangle. The model being in the center. I then put the y as the shortest side of the rectangle. I use this corner coordinate as the g54 to the corner of the vice.

[109jb]

In CAM it is easy. Just tell it where part origin is and it re-writes the whole code. I again agree that isn't a problem. Not everyone has access to a CAM program. I for one only have access when I go to my friends shop where he lets me use MasterCAM. Hence, except for very complicated parts I am usually hand programming.

When hand programming it is easier for me to think in all positive moves with any negative x or y position being off the part. If you use your CAM to position part zero at the top left corner and you have the table moving left for positive then all of your program moves are negative. Not a problem, but a matter of preference.

You both though have missed the key part of my example. In my example I described a part with tolerances pulled off of the lower left on the drawing. You aren't going to be machining with reference to the bottom edge of the drawing unless that side (bottom edge of drawing) is against the fixed jaw or you touch off on that side for every part. For multiple part runs you don't want to be touching off every time.

[carlowens]

Maybe you need better CAM.... It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever where the origin is in the drawings. In CAM, I can move the origin to wherever it needs to be to do the machining properly. I rarely bother to put the drawing/model origin at any particular location. It will often be on some key feature in the middle of the part, where I started building the model, so useless when machining. When I do the CAM, I decide where the best place is to put the origin for machining, typically based on how I'm holding the part, and create a new coordinate system based on that location and orientation. I NEVER have to rotate or locate the part on the machine based of any constraint in the drawing - I put the part where it is best for machining, oriented in whatever orientation it is best for machining. When using a vise, the reference is ALWAYS one corner of the fixed jaw, whether that's to the front, rear, or side, and it makes no difference whatsoever in the precision of the part.

Regards,
Ray L.

exactly, the way he is doing it is funked up and NOT the conventional way it's done by the VAST majority here. he needs to pay attention to all the videos shown and see that the typical way is what you see being cut on your computer screen looks exactly the same way as on the machine in front of you not upside down and backwards. as for CAM c'mon, there are plenty of free or darn cheap CAM programs out there and that is what the VAST majority use around here not writing by hand. his way is certainly not newbie friendly.

[onocyclone]

I recently started using auto desk inventor 2015 and that is fantastic!