[João Carimo]

Building a 3d printer from a common laser printer.

I'm still in the conceptual phase of the project.
I've done nothing yet.
Actually, i´ve bought a laser printer from ebay.

I´m planning to disassemble it and use the laser assembly to print over an epox resin\photopolymer, layer by layer (that´s how it shoud work).

Instead of the tonner, i intend to use a resin\photopolymer and convert the tonner sensors to signal the resin\photopolymer level detection.

I will use the roller stepper motor and it's drive to move the laser carriage trough the y axis in order to trace the layer and reuse the line feed signal to activate the table/platform elevator (that will be the printing area).

After the layer is completely traced and for the most part hardened by the laser beam, the table/platform will be lowered into the vat a distance equal to the thickness of a layer.
Upon completion of the printing process, the object will be elevated from the vat and allowed to drain.

Excess resin\photopolymer will be swabbed manually from the surfaces.

The same can be done with a jet printer.
In this case, instead of a table/platform elevator, the carriage must be elevated to a distance equal to the thickness of the layer, and you wont need a closed environment.

So, Let´s do it.

João Carimo

[fkaCarel]

I am afraid that if the exposure time (amount of light, necessary to get a reaction) is as fast as let's say photographic printed circuit board, you will have a laser power problem. Replacement may be not that easy. The proces of a laser printer is not the same as this "magic" 3D modelling. A laser printer has a very fast switching laser diode (on/off). I hope I am wrong, but try to compare the laser power of a known machine to your printer. If the difference is big, you're better off by CNC driving 2 mirrors (X/Y).

[smoregrava]

I think it's hard to convert a convetional laser printer to print 3D. But I belive its possible to make a low cost 3D printer. Have never seen any good solution to this jet. But I hope that one day I could have a 3d printer standing beside my CNC mill.

http://www.zcorp.com/products/printersdetail.asp?ID=2
Anyone want one of these?? :-)

[João Carimo]

I used to work at Hewlett-Packard 6 years ago.
I can repair almost all Hp products among printers, plotters, computters, etc...
From my experience, i think that a conversion in achievable.

The laser source can be easily replaced.
The main intention, is to reuse the same mirrors, stepper motors, lenses, etc..
The most difficult part would be assembling it in a new perspective, and to make the table/platform elevator working perfectly and synchronized.

The biggest unanswered question is:
Can a cdrw laser source make the job?
Or do i have to build one?

Time will tell

[fkaCarel]

I just looked around a little and found:
The photopolymers harden through exposure with UV-light, the process looks almost more thermal than photo. A laser printer uses IR-light, so for starters you are on the wrong side of the spectrum, and UV is a broad spectrum.

You need a matched to the resin semiconductor laser, and as they are developed from IR through red, the state of the art seemes near UV.
Then the switching: a spot of 0.1mm is a switching time of somewhere in the 1/10000 second, so there is not much energy delivered to the material.

I make it a no, because of the necessary switching semiconductor laser. Another laser, more powered, attached to a mirror or router system, and if necessary a shutter is a more sensible approach.

[greybeard]

[QUOTE=fkaCarel;197348]I just looked around a little and found:
The photopolymers harden through exposure with UV-light, the process looks almost more thermal than photo. A laser printer uses IR-light, so for starters you are on the wrong side of the spectrum, and UV is a broad spectrum.
QUOTE]

Strange. I would have thought that the laser printer manufacturers would have already matched their printing resin to the output spectrum of the laser.

Perhaps Joao could tell us from his experience/plans what resin he intends to try using.

[fkaCarel]

The laser printer as in the laser printer for paper uses IR. I also understood that 3D printed products are "baked" afterwards. Still it is an amazing process. It can make unique, delicate shapes.

[João Carimo]

I plan to build a Nitrogen (N2) Laser, because it produces intense extremely short (a few ns) intense (100 kW typical) pulses of light in the near UV portion of the E/M spectrum (337.1 nm being the dominent line).
Despite this impressive capability, the N2 laser is among the easiest to construct.
I also want to try the HeNe laser and then the CO2 laser.
And yes, i intend to replace/modify the laser assembly!

As for the resin, i will have a go from clear Liquid Plastic to Liquid thermosensitive resin.

As you can see, i have a long way to go...
I'm sure that, in the process, i will have many failures,
but i also know that the sucess is inevitable.
It´s not a question of "if", but "when".

For a start, i´m looking at www.alpineimport.com for suitable and cheap Liquid resin:
http://www.alpineimport.com/searchresult.asp?CartId={E03EDF50-EVEREST0A19-4449-95D0-7A8D195C877A}

But the most difficult part will be matching the precise thickness level...

By the way, Thank's.
All ideas are welcome.

Please, check this out and tell me about it.

http://blog.rebang.com/index.php?p=101

http://www.instructables.com/id/EBOZIY3579EP2862FW/

[João Carimo]

UV-Curable Waterborne Polyurethane-Acrylate Resin

http://si-pu.en.alibaba.com/product/...ate_Resin.html

[João Carimo]

A laser printer has a very fast switching laser diode (on/off).
You know you´re write...

I hope I am wrong, but try to compare the laser power of a known machine to your printer. If the difference is big, you're better off by CNC driving 2 mirrors (X/Y).[/QUOTE]

Perhaps it might be cheaper this way...
But the point is to reuse the printer´s availlable drivers and software...

Thank's for the tip.
I will not forget this approach.

[fkaCarel]

I am in no way an optic man, maybe a little. There is also a little thing about coatings for lenses and the lenses themselves optimized for the used light. Then the difference between IR and UV becomes bigger. And the big difference: energy absortion by the lenses, so you may have to focus the beam elsewhere. An IR printer laser is a unit with the astigmatic correction and focus lens.

[WilliamD]

Stereolithography is truly an incredible concept, and I myself have looked into constructing such a machine. The laser part would be easy, even the CNC'd x and y and table would be easy. But the resin is upwards of $800 a gallon! That's what makes it impractical in my book. The resin isin't strong enough to make any real machinery parts, just prototyping. If you wanted to open a prototyping business, I'm sure it would work. There is some good info on www.howstuffworks.com, under stereolithography. Yes, the parts are baked afterwards. The cad and cam wouldn't be too difficult. There are things like supports and what not that have to be taken into consideration. It's actually a really simple concept, that resin is just too dang expensive! Good luck though. I would build a setup for this in a hot second, if you could find a reasonably priced material.

[João Carimo]

WilliamD, can you tell what resin would you use?
And which laser do you think is more suitable?

I am also examining the cdr´s laser assembly unit...
6 cdr´s laser assembly units are used to cut foam in a vat.
It would trace all the faces in order to create an object.
It´s a cheap and simple machine to build.
May not be able to build as complex forms as the Stereolithography,
but it´s fast.

[zoltan]

Hi,

I would like to ask you guys about laser diode of printers and cdr, is possible to be used for engravings or cutting? If yes, what materials and in which conditions? What power can these units, in general, to push out? I have several of these....maybe I can do something with them???

Thank you.

Zoltan

[Corvus corax]

The laser diodes used in laser printers are FAR too low powered to do any kind of direct marking/ engraving. There are VERY powerful laser diodes available, in a variety of wavelengths, but they are designed primarily for use as pumping diodes, wheree they are used to excite a lasing crystal, or frequency doubler, to produce green and blue solid state lasers. Green laser pointers use these.

To effectivley mark materials at anything more than a snails pace requires about 10 watts of power in infrared, and several watts of power in the green wavelengths. The laser diodes in laser printers (toner, drum type) are rated in the milliwatt range, typically less than 10 milliwatts at that. As far as cutting wood or metals, you would see results similar to using a flashlight.

I would suggest if you are interested in doing something like this, that you read through the significant amount of information online. For cutting materials cheaply, a CO2 laser is usually the weapon of choice. you would need one in the 100 Watt range to do any real work, and the ones that we can afford are quite large and fragile. The plasma tube is made of glass, is quite heavy when filled with its cooling water, and is about 5 feet long, so beam handling optics are required. CO2 lasers will NOT work with conventional optics, they require Zinc Selenide lenses, as their output is just on the edge of being called "light" at all. They are in fact, closer to being microwave tubes.

CO2 lasers are bad at cutting aluminum. Better to use YAG laser for that. The wavelength is 10 times shorter, though still infrared, and the laser is MUCH smaller. If you can find one off the shelf, great, but unless you are gifted with optics, and have money to burn, don't try building one of these yourself. Forget the old flashlamp pumped units, they are dinosaurs. Find a nice DPSS laser and use that.

[cristian gabor]

it is not better puder then Liquid Plastic

[cristian gabor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7h09dTVkdw

[slp_prlzys]

fun with laser diode

[cristian gabor]

wat power must a laser diode have to melt the plastic powder?
i finaly started my first projetc
i ordered a cnc kit 3 Axis CNC Router or Mill Stepper Motor complete kit (ebay)and some of the hardwere
any other info on this?

[JohnCNC]

I've looked into rapid prototyping and found the Rep Rap, Fab@Home, even a way to convert a Lexmart printer into a 3d printer on the Web. Desktop Factory has the most promising, yet the resolution really sucks. It sells for 5 grand. A kit for the FabQHome sells for around 3 grand. The Fab is great because you can experiment with any kind of built-up material such as silicon gel, chocolate, etc.
Sincerely, JonCNC