[gtschance]

Anyone heard a status report from DeWayne this week? I hate bugging him individually.

I am over 100 days since my order.

George

[Harlow]

George – Finishing up 4 now. Will get 4-6 out next week. You’re not bugging me at all. No one is bugging me. If anyone wants to call or email me don’t hesitate.

later,
Harlow
http://cncbridges.com/

[Jay C]

In that case you stated 8 orders per month (30-days) ... not asking for a prediction per se, but how far out are you (ie how deep are the orders)? Greater than 20? Looking forward to how this pans out.

Jay

[Harlow]

Jay C – Until we are caught up all available time is on production. After that we are allocating enough time for 8 orders per month. How deep are the orders? At 5-6 a week it will take us 5-7 weeks to get current.

later,
Harlow
http://cncbridges.com/

[pzzamakr1980]

Hello Harlow, I was curious if you happened to have any pictures of your column or if you have even had a chance to start on it with everything else going on. Thx

[Harlow]

pzza – Have the materials and design. Haven’t cut the first piece yet. Will give more details later.

Harlow
http://cncbridges.com/

[alexccmeister]

Hi Dewayne,

Great stuff. I have been doing research on CNC mill for a while now and I almost put in an order for an X2 or and X3 due to the excitement. I am glad I came across your site. My concern with getting an X2 obviously is the work envelope. And an X3 is just too big for what I need to do. And the cost is double an X2.

Basically, I am really, really interested to get the kit. I have emailed you today via your website, but I guess you won't see it if you have spam issue. So I will write here instead.

I know you are behind schedule due to the overwhelming response. Just a few questions. I haven't seen anywhere on this thread being asked or anwered.

1. I understand you are using the 8tpi leadscrew. Any issue with designing a part in metric and cnc the part with your kit which is obviously in inch (imperial).
2. What's the diff between a 20tpi leadscrew and an 8tpi leadscrew?
3. Any issue with backlash with your kit and the acme leadscrew?
4. Do you ship and how much to ship to Brunei Darussalam if you do. If too expensive, can ship in parts. Please say yes.

Thanks.

Alex

[alexccmeister]

Hi Dewayne,

Will this product be in the market for good? I am thinking of getting an X2 now from SIEG and upgrade to your base and column kits later when you are earnestly selling it online. Can you advice? Shall I do that or just go for an X3? I don't mind waiting say till the middle of the year for the kit. Thanks.

[Harlow]

Alex – I see new questions that weren’t in your email.

1. No issue with using tpi to do metric. I would have done all metric on this but cost and availability prevented it.

2. Too high of a turns per inch will cause your motors to turn to many rpms. Steppers, which make their power at low rpms, will loose too much power keeping up with a 20 tpi screw.

3. Backlash isn’t really an issue on our base. We are seeing .006. I know what to do to get rid of it. The most important thing about any backlash is that it is repeatable. Same amount all the time. If you are new to CNC then you may not know how software compensates for backlash. We use Mach 2/3. You enter your machine backlash amount in to a dialogue box and the software automatically compensates for that amount every time it changes direction. In other words if you enter .006 as your X axis backlash when the leadscrew changes direction the software automatically takes up the .006. You can watch it happen on the motor coupling if you run slow enough. Really neat and a real accuracy saver. The key is that that .006 or whatever is always the same.

4. Shipping answer done in email

Will this product be in the market for good?

Yes

Shall I do that or just go for an X3?

I like the X2. Have no problems with it. It’s $249.00 for the Head / Spindle / Controller. That’s a deal.

later,
Harlow
http://cncbridges.com/

[alexccmeister]

Hi Dewayne,

I just emailed you back in response to your last email to me. I am getting the backlash issue clearly. But for the leadscrew issue, I am just curious why so many cnc kit manufacturers use 20tpi instead of 8tpi. I guess, its because 20tpi screws are easily found?

I know this is answered before, but isn't the resolution less on an 8tpi screw than it is on a 20tpi screw? Will this make any difference if CNC is used? I think for me its alway good to have the option to do manual milling so to have a knob on each axis will be useful for simple milling processes. Will the 8tpi screw give me any problem if I am manually milling parts due to the resolution being low?

As for shipping, I will go for the USD228. Its the cheapest. But I am expecting to wait for at least 3-4 months before finally getting the parts. Is this correct. Assuming your fabrication is done in the next 45 to 60 days, then another 60 days to get here. Fingers crossed.

Is the concrete polymer brittle? How tough is it compared to steel? Sorry, I have no idea what it is so hope you don't get offended by this question. I noticed on your site you have this description for the table top.

Table & T-Slot Design - Our original table was 10" x 24. We increased it to 12" x 30" because it makes setup so much easier. That also provided a nice skirt for channelling fluids and swarf to the back. Our units come with the table prepared for t-slot material top of your choice.(pic 1) Includes 20 tapped and re-inforced 1/4" holes plus 20 stainless 1/4" bolts. Aluminum in the second picture is not included, that's just to show how to finish it out.

(bold statement) If the aluminium bars are not included in the sales of the table? Do you sell it separately?

Are the aluminium bars sufficient for clamping parts down for cnc work as compared to a table with T-slot made with steel?

I am getting the whole unit of X2 as the cost of getting the whole unit from where I am is about the same as getting just the spindle and head from littlemachineshop when shipping is included.

[Barry Young]

.

3. Backlash isn’t really an issue on our base. We are seeing .006. I know what to do to get rid of it. The most important thing about any backlash is that it is repeatable. Same amount all the time. If you are new to CNC then you may not know how software compensates for backlash. We use Mach 2/3. You enter your machine backlash amount in to a dialogue box and the software automatically compensates for that amount every time it changes direction. In other words if you enter .006 as your X axis backlash when the leadscrew changes direction the software automatically takes up the .006. You can watch it happen on the motor coupling if you run slow enough. Really neat and a real accuracy saver. The key is that that .006 or whatever is always the same.

later,
Harlow
http://cncbridges.com/

Hi DeWayne:

This is not correct. On industrial machine controls backlash compensation does just what you said. On the Mach controls it does not.

From "Using Mach3":
"Mach3 will attempt to compensate for backlash in axis drive mechanisms byattempting to approach each required coordinate from the same direction. While this is useful in operations like drilling or boring, it cannot overcome problems with the machine in continuous cutting."

This means that Mach control software will not compensate for backlash when interpolating holes or generating curves or swept or lofted surfaces. Mach1/2/3 effectively do not have backlash compensation. Mach backlash compensation works much more like an exact stop check than real backlash compensation.

Are you going to ship the 4-6 tables this week like you said you would on 2-22?

Thank you

Barry Young
Young Camera Company

[alexccmeister]

Hi Dewayne,

Just clicked the pay now button on Paypal. Great stuff. Now the waiting game begins. As mentioned by one of the guys on this thread. Can you please provide a 10tpi leadscrew instead of an 8tpi leadscrew. More for easy calculation and conversion. If you can convince me otherwise, I will stay with the 10tpi leadscrew. What do I need to do when using the mach3 in regards to the 10tpi leadscrew? Any setup prior to machining? Thanks.

[alexccmeister]

Cryoteck. Yes, the Xylotex Kit will work fine. Routing PCBs will not be a problem. Just make sure the column is square to the table, surface your t-slots, and your good to go.

Videos? As soon as I can.

Harlow
http://cncbridges.com/

Hi DeWayne,

I have been going tru this thread again just to get more info. Going ove rit again really help me to understand alot more about the setup. Anyway can you explain what you wrote before?

1. Make sure the column is square to the table. Can you tell me the easiest way to do this? Use a set square or something like that?

2. Surface your T-Slot. I am lost. What do you mean by this?

Thanks.

P.S. more questions to come once I go through this thread from start to finish.

[Jay C]

Hi DeWayne,

I have been going tru this thread again just to get more info. Going ove rit again really help me to understand alot more about the setup. Anyway can you explain what you wrote before?

1. Make sure the column is square to the table. Can you tell me the easiest way to do this? Use a set square or something like that?

Search for tramming.

2. Surface your T-Slot. I am lost. What do you mean by this?

Thanks.

P.S. more questions to come once I go through this thread from start to finish.

Please try not to bombard the 1 and only man that is producing this table. :rainfro: There are several members that have been waiting for months and most if not all your answers might be answered once these things start shipping. Keep reading, you have a few months before you have to worry too much about it. BTW, what he means is that you have to supply your own T-Slot material. Look at the website, the table only includes bosses/standoffs to attach whatever table you want.

Jay

[ger21]

Hi DeWayne:

This is not correct. On industrial machine controls backlash compensation does just what you said. On the Mach controls it does not.

As of yesterday the backlash comp in Mach3 has changed. I saw this post this morning and though I'd forward you the info from Art.

Version .050 was just updated. I just tested the new backlash on my Mill and it loved it. (though it woudl always do backlash, the servos never really cared..).
However, this is now how it works and the difference is very observable in smoothness.

As you all know, backlash is not ramped. That is very hard on steppers, BUT they can handle it as long as the backlash speed is slow enough. The
problem always came in if backlash was attempted while other axis were running. This would commonly happen if you performed a line like
G0X10Y.001 , if the Y required backlash, the driver wouldnt notice it till the Y took its first step, which would be in the middle of that X move. BANG, you get
lost pulses in that move because the X had to stop to allow the Y to correct. Only servos could reliably do this, and many large machines ( Fanucs and such) also seemed to work this way, simply banging out the correction. But they knew their servos could handle it. I have puzzled for years (literally) with how to modify Machs engine to handle this. This new version seems to do it very well indeed here.

There is one thing you need to be aware of, in the general config, there is a variable called "Shuttle acceleration". This variable is a global systemic deceleration time for the system when multiple axis are running. It is only used till now in Shuttle mode, its the time the system takes to decelerate multiple
axis when it has to. It has a default value of 1 second. Previously, it only had to use that when a user stopped turning the shuttle wheel. I now use it for backlash. So heres the sequence of events that will occur in a backlash condition as in the line above "G0X10Y.001"

The axis will start to move, by the time the X gets to 5, it is up to full speed, now the driver sees a command come in for the Y axis to take a few steps.
The driver will now ramp all axis to a stop using the Shuttle global decel time. When all axis come to a stop, the backlash is applied but ramped up, so keep the
backlash speed below that in which your system would need a ramp down, I say ramp down, because the backlash will be ramped up to end of lash, then stop abruptly. (For many technical reasons.). However, since backlash should have no push on it, and not moving anything, this abrupt stop is usually fine, and no
lost pulses will occur. When the backlash stops, the system will then ramp all axis back up to speed, and the program can continue. Take note that Mach3 has no idea this is going on, this is all done automagically in the driver.

So this will greatly slow a persons cut job if backlash is used, unless you have a low enough Shuttle decel set. Not too many will need the full 1 second decel time to use this. But this value is a value used as a global decelerator, so it must take into account your fastest axis in a job and the time it woudl take to decelerate it to zero. Youll have to find it through trial and error Im afraid, its pretty serious math to calculate it. I recommend using .5 seconds or so till you know,
you can slowly bump it down from there.

The upside to all this is that backlash should be much less jerky on any system, and it wont matter if CV is used or not. I took the further precaution
of only allowing it to try the correction if the axis involved in a move has backlash, so CV will work on the other axis , but will ramp down to correct when it needs to . This makes backlash almost troublefree, and you wont have to concern yourself so much with it. I was tempted to simply remove backlash its been such a pain for some, but I do recognise that some need it, and till now I simply had no idea HOW to do it right in Mach3's context. But watching it correct on the job
I just ran on my mill was very pleasurable, it worked great.

So redownload .050 is you already had it and you use backlash, I suspect it will solve a variety of ills, though it will slwo you down some, thats the price
you pay for using backlash, but I hoep at least, that its now much more usable than it ever was before.

[alexccmeister]

Hi Jay-C,

No problem. Will leave it till then. Wouldn't want further delays with unnecessary questions at this point.

[Harlow]

I’m behind on 2 of 3 businesses. If I don’t reply here I’ll be behind on this forum.

Alex -

isn't the resolution less on an 8tpi screw than it is on a 20tpi screw? Will this make any difference if CNC is used? I think for me its alway good to have the option to do manual milling so to have a knob on each axis will be useful for simple milling processes. Will the 8tpi screw give me any problem if I am manually milling parts due to the resolution being low?

Yes, No, No.

Is the concrete polymer brittle?

Brittle like iron.

How tough is it compared to steel?

It’s harder to sand than steel if that means anything. Don’t have the tools to do actual tests. Plan on getting them. It is very hard.

If the aluminium bars are not included in the sales of the table? Do you sell it separately?

Yes, we can supply the aluminum T Slot bars.

Are the aluminium bars sufficient for clamping parts down for cnc work as compared to a table with T-slot made with steel?

Yes, the aluminum is sufficient. Started to change to steel but it’s nice knowing that if I screw up and hit my table I want ruin a bit as fast. I will probably go to steel later for the added weight.

Barry,

This means that Mach control software will not compensate for backlash when interpolating holes or generating curves or swept or lofted surfaces.

Works for me. Our leadscrew bearing mounts are 40mm and they come out to +-.001 accurate using .008 backlash comp. The spider couplings add .002. Gonna get rid of that. I want zero backlash.

Are you going to ship the 4-6 tables this week like you said you would on 2-22?

Yes

Alex –

Can you please provide a 10tpi leadscrew instead of an 8tpi leadscrew.

Actually for full manual a 20 tpi would be better. For manual with cnc it really doesn’t matter as you would almost always use the DRO on your screen.

Anyway can you explain what you wrote before?
1. Make sure the column is square to the table. Can you tell me the easiest way to do this? Use a set square or something like that?

2. Surface your T-Slot. I am lost. What do you mean by this?

Squaring the column to the table is called tramming it. Google “Tramming A Mill Column”. Pretty simple.
To surface the T-Slots you first tram your column as close as possible. Then you use a large fly cutter to surface the aluminum T Slot tops. This brings the T Slot surface to perfect alignment with the head. After that you mill the edges of your T Slot aluminum, which brings the edges to perfect alignment with the head. All this get screws up if you take your column off. Not a problem. I’ve resurfaced mine several times. You’re just taking a skim cut. Very nice having replaceable T Slots



Jay C – THANKS FOR COVERING MY BACK!



Ger21 – Thanks for posting the backlash info. Maybe my circular pockets come out accurate using BL Comp because I was running a very slow feed and used the default acc of 20. I believe those run at 6ipm x .100 per. You can watch the motor couplers and see the BL Comp kick in every time X or Y change directions. Gotta Love Mach.

later,
Harlow
http://cncbridges.com/

[Barry Young]

Ger21 and Harlow:

Thanks so much for the information on Mach3. This has come up a million times in my minimill group on Yahoo and until now Mach software had BLC that really wan't. I am very pleased to hear this since this was my only real complaint with Mach. Also, glad to hear that you shipped the first tables DeWayne, thanks for all of your hard work, dedication and especially for a tremendous idea.

Barry Young
Young Camera Company

[alexccmeister]

Hi DeWayne,

Thanks for your reply. Glad to hear the first table is shipped out. Can't wait for mine to ship.

Forget about the 10tpi leadscrew then. If your standard is 8tpi, I will go for that. But will wait for your response regarding the metric leadscrew.

Would like to have the T slot sold as one set with the table. Depending on the additional price.

Thanks

[Barry Young]

Will whoever gets the first tables please post a message here so we can hear what you think? I am sure you will be very happy with your new tables.

Thank you

Barry Young
Young Camera Company