[CadRhino]

I have lots of router bits and was wondering if anyone has attempted to use them on their Tormach to profile aluminum.
If so, how did it go?
Was the finish to your expectation?
Do any folks know of a tool that is reasonably priced to do profiling on aluminum with?
Thanks
Nathan

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Why would you use router bits when decent HSS endmills are no more expensive? Router bits are nowhere near as sharp as a good metal-cutting tool, and will not work as well. They are good for some plastics.

Regards,
Ray L.

[G59]

Router bits are nowhere near as sharp as a good metal-cutting tool, and will not work as well.

Actually, Onsrud makes router bits that can be used in both wood and Aluminum. They work well provided you use the spiral flute ones. Two weekends ago I broke my last 3/16 endmill cutting a slot in 6061 and being a Saturday, all the industrial suppliers were closed so no chance of finding a replacement. This was a rush job and it needed to be done for Monday AM. So I took a chance, went to the nearby Lee Valley store and grabbed 3 3/16 Onsrud router bits, being skeptical of it all. The salesman said I would have no problem and he was confident it could do the job.

I managed to get the ten slots 3/16 wide and deep, each 33 inches long using only one tool, using the same Feed and Speed, I would of used had it been a regular 2 FL endmill. At the end of the last pass, the tool was as sharp as new, and for $8 each, it saved the day.
In their catalog they advertise their HSS router bits as being good enough for aluminum, and they were right. Mind you they are 2 Flute.
It saved my day.

Just saying.

[CadRhino]

I want to do a cove profile and I am not aware of any CNC grade end mills that have a cove profile so that is why I was thinking of trying a router a new sharp wood router bit.
Thanks for the feedback.

[bhurts]

If you are just going around the profile you should be fine. You can get large ballnose endmill also. I have done profiles with router bits with good success so I know it can be done. I would step the profile in not just take it all with one cut.(at least not the first try. I have also chucked up profile router bits in a quick change lathe tool holder. You can do large radius cuts and get a mirror finish on the lathe if you clamp the tool so one flute is oriented like a normal lathe tool. This has done well in aluminum and brass on the mill and lathe.

Ben

[G59]

I would step the profile in not just take it all with one cut.

This is the key if you are to have any success with it. The majority of router bits don't have large ends that go into the tool holder, for you to do a single pass. So just take small steps and you should be OK. Also don't forget lubricant or coolant.

[CadRhino]

Well I guess what I am really trying to do is use my mill as a vertical lathe to put a concave edge on round stock.
I want to do a concave cut so a ball mill won't work.

Ray, I think you posted a while back on a post concerning 'Vertical Milling with a Novakon" that you had a Shars R8 shank chuck to hold stock. If so, which one did you get and how big of a diameter stock can you chuck up into it. I would like to do at least 1" diameter stock and wider if possible.

Since it is R8 I wonder if you could have the ATC filled with these so you could do 10 at a time then re-load the ATC.

Time to start watching and reading old 'Tormach as vertical lathe' posts.

Thanks,
Nathan

Why would you use router bits when decent HSS endmills are no more expensive? Router bits are nowhere near as sharp as a good metal-cutting tool, and will not work as well. They are good for some plastics.

Regards,
Ray L.

[CadRhino]

Thanks Ben. This is encouraging.

I thought of doing these on my manual lathe but there is a production requirement and I am not as good on the lathe yet.

If you are just going around the profile you should be fine. You can get large ballnose endmill also. I have done profiles with router bits with good success so I know it can be done. I would step the profile in not just take it all with one cut.(at least not the first try. I have also chucked up profile router bits in a quick change lathe tool holder. You can do large radius cuts and get a mirror finish on the lathe if you clamp the tool so one flute is oriented like a normal lathe tool. This has done well in aluminum and brass on the mill and lathe.

Ben

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Well I guess what I am really trying to do is use my mill as a vertical lathe to put a concave edge on round stock.
I want to do a concave cut so a ball mill won't work.

Ray, I think you posted a while back on a post concerning 'Vertical Milling with a Novakon" that you had a Shars R8 shank chuck to hold stock. If so, which one did you get and how big of a diameter stock can you chuck up into it. I would like to do at least 1" diameter stock and wider if possible.

Since it is R8 I wonder if you could have the ATC filled with these so you could do 10 at a time then re-load the ATC.

Time to start watching and reading old 'Tormach as vertical lathe' posts.

Thanks,
Nathan

You really want the smallest chuck you can get - probably 3". A large one is just not safe, especially if using TTS. In fact, I would not use any chuck with TTS. R8 would be much safer. Handling 1" stock is not a problem at all.

I don't think the Tormac ATC would be very happy with even one chuck in it, much less several. That is a LOT of weight, and the tools are basically held in the carousel by two #10 Nylon screws.

You should also consider holding the round pieces vertically in a fixture or chuck, and simply milling the edges. I make what would normally be lathe-turned parts all the time using purely milling operations, holding the stock in a 3-jaw chuck, mounted to the table or a vise, with the stock mounted vertically. It won't give you quite the accuracy of a lathe, but it will easily get within a couple thou, and it's very quick and easy. It would also be easy to make a fixture to hold as many parts as you have room for.

If you want to do a concave cut, then a ball mill is exactly what you need.... Or are you doing a corner round-over, in which case you can buy round-over milling cutters.

Ball Endmill:



Round-over Mill:



Regards,
Ray L.

[CadRhino]

Thanks Ray
I am always learning from your posts.
Yes - I guess a round over mill is what I need.
I agree that the ATC would not want heavy chucks hanging off of it.
I liked the idea of chucking up the material because I could then use a parting tool to cut the final part off.
Mounting stock to a chuck/vise is better and I could probably use a slitting saw to cut the parts off the stock.

When you said 'R8 handling 1" is not a problem at all" we're you thinking of some kind of R8 holder that 1" sock can be secured to? If so, what holder would that be?

I agree with you that I would not want a heavy chuck on the end of my spindle, though.

Thanks
Nathan

You really want the smallest chuck you can get - probably 3". A large one is just not safe, especially if using TTS. In fact, I would not use any chuck with TTS. R8 would be much safer. Handling 1" stock is not a problem at all.

I don't think the Tormac ATC would be very happy with even one chuck in it, much less several. That is a LOT of weight, and the tools are basically held in the carousel by two #10 Nylon screws.

You should also consider holding the round pieces vertically in a fixture or chuck, and simply milling the edges. I make what would normally be lathe-turned parts all the time using purely milling operations, holding the stock in a 3-jaw chuck, mounted to the table or a vise, with the stock mounted vertically. It won't give you quite the accuracy of a lathe, but it will easily get within a couple thou, and it's very quick and easy. It would also be easy to make a fixture to hold as many parts as you have room for.

If you want to do a concave cut, then a ball mill is exactly what you need.... Or are you doing a corner round-over, in which case you can buy round-over milling cutters.

Ball Endmill:



Round-over Mill:



Regards,
Ray L.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Many ways to hold 1" stock. A small 3-jaw chuck with R8 shank is one. You can buy R8 endmill holders up to at least 1-1/4". You can also buy ER40 collets up to at least 1", to use with an R8 ER40 collet chuck.

Regards,
Ray L.

[popspipes]

I have lots of router bits and was wondering if anyone has attempted to use them on their Tormach to profile aluminum.
If so, how did it go?
Was the finish to your expectation?
Do any folks know of a tool that is reasonably priced to do profiling on aluminum with?
Thanks
Nathan

I have used router bits as well, usually on wood though in the Tormach, the biggest difference is tool ridgidity and cutting geometry, other than that they should work fine.

[RTP_Burnsville]

I have used carbide wood router bits for profiling for several years with very good results. The finish is just fine and anyone would be hard-pressed to tell any difference The reason for using them is I have several drawers of wood bits so see no reason to buy a special bit if they work. The round over bits are the most used, but most others work just as well.

Robert

[CadRhino]

Great to hear.
Thanks

[Zetopan]

... You can buy R8 endmill holders up to at least 1-1/4".

R8 end mill holders are available for up to 1.5" shanks. I own a complete set of end mill holders that goes that large.

[BAMCNC.COM]

Really, 1.5"? Was it custom? When I bought my setup for R8 the largest I could get was 1", that was a few years ago though.

Wood Router bits will do fine for Aluminum, I use a normal wood blade in my miter saw to cut it. Keep WD-40 on hand.

EDIT: Did a quick search on shars and... shars.com - R8 Collets

[CadRhino]

OK, I went through my router bits and none of them really look up to snuff - most have smaller shanks that I would feel comfortable using and are HSS.

I looked at ENCO and they have some 1/4" radius round-over end mills that would work for me but they are imports made of cobalt. How good is cobalt?

At this time, I am thinking I might just use my largest ball mill and mill the round-over shapes in .015" steps. This might be way too slow and need too much finishing when the part is done but will give it a shot.

If that doesn't work, I will either order the round-over bit from ENCO (unless anyone knows of a better brand) or head down to my local wood supplier and get a FREUD carbide round over and give it a shot.

Best,
Nathan

[BAMCNC.COM]

HSS is just fine for 6061 Aluminum, in fact could be better.

Enco 20% off + free shipping today and tomorrow only.
Promo codes = CYBER & MONDAY

[carlowens]

Really, 1.5"? Was it custom? When I bought my setup for R8 the largest I could get was 1", that was a few years ago though.

Wood Router bits will do fine for Aluminum, I use a normal wood blade in my miter saw to cut it. Keep WD-40 on hand.

EDIT: Did a quick search on shars and... shars.com - R8 Collets

yes really. shars.com - 112quot Precision R8 End Mill Holder

[BAMCNC.COM]

Ha, I somehow didn't realize he wanted an endmill holder, sorry about that. High speed and overload.