[cdlenterprises]

Posted this in the General Machining forum with no response. Thought this might be a better place for it.....

Just a general question for all of the zone members. Post your stories about how you started your shop. What gave you the idea to go out on your own? Would you do it again? How did you find your first cutomer(s) and build your customer base? How did you buy your first machine? New or used? CNC or manual? When did you hire your first employee? Here's your chance to tell how it was done how you would do things different.

[MrWild]

If this was, "How did I start my shop out in my garage, I'd be full of answers." After all of these years slowly buying tools and machines and when any money at all was made, the money went right back into the garage for more and better, I may start a small business in a few weeks. Looking at me the business owner renting all of the tools and machines from me the private person Employees? I don't know anyone that is intelligent, reliable, industrious and affordable. I know a lot of shiftless, lazy or low IQ/attention span folks. They won't get near my tools or the on switches of my machines.

Small time, part time, and high level hobby to see if I can cut it and like doing it all first.

[cdlenterprises]

bump

[Klox]

I've had a business for 8 years in South Africa, now i'm employee again in New Zealand....
To answer all your questions in a short simple answer is nearly impossible. People start businesses for different reasons, much the same as different things give different people pleasure or satisfaction.
Anyway a business can be a very rewarding thing, it can also be a vehicle to discover facets of yourself you never knew existed....

[erd39030]

Well, I am just starting, so I hope I'll still be in bussiness in 20 years to answer this question again.

I have 10 years jumping from one job to another, (computer techician, environmental measuring, pizza delivery guy, etc) so 2 months ago I decided that I didn't like to have a boss, I took all my credit cards and bougth a Bridgeport Interact 412 mill and a Hitachi Seiki 3NE-300 lathe (both old as me), leaved my job, crossed fingers... and let's see what's happen.
(one thing is sure, the bank will start shouting at me next months, 'cause right now I am starving)

Best regards:

Everardo

[Geof]

I am surprised a the lack of response to this thread but as Klox mentions a short simple answer is impossible; or maybe people don't want to give away their secrets. Anyway here is my story 27 years after the start of my business; I have left some details foggy because I am not inclined to give away secrets either.

A bit of background first: I did an old fashioned apprenticeship in New Zealand ending with getting the New Zealand Trade Certificate in Fitting, Turning and Toolmaking. This was with a company that made firefighting equipment, dairy farm equipment and bunch of other stuff; it was a machine shop associated with a brass and aluminum foundry. My apprenticeship was spent learning how to make multipoint brazed carbide tooling and fixtures for medium volume production as well as running machines. This was well before CNC was common, I started in 1960 and my Completion of Apprenticeship form was dated on my 21st birthday in 1964. I stayed with the company for a couple more years then moved to Canada and worked with an outfit making heavy duty sawmill equipment. Being a restless type I got bored and started taking college courses while working an afternoon shift three days a week. Then I did a bit of travelling and worked as an instrument mechanic in a telecommunications lab in Canada, travelled to Scotland and worked at a fisheries research lab designing and building underwater instruments. After this I got the urge to spend some time studying and finished up getting a couple of university degrees. In late 1979 I decided a university research career was not my bag so I got out and went back to my roots and landed a position as shop supervisor with an outfit making pulp mill equipment. It turned out the owner/boss just wanted a fall-guy to blame for his screw-ups so after six months I told him to do something physically impossible and quit. This was mid 1980 and I started my own business.

I had no money and no leads but I figured I should be able to find something to do along the line of making custom scientific equipment and prototypes for university researchers and the like; after all I could talk their jargon and be just as arrogant as they are. A lucky break came along in the form of a local iron foundry advertising a one year job position on afternoon shift in their toolroom and I landed that. By this time I was married with two kids so a reliable way to pay the bills was handy. I wandered around talking to people and managed to line up a couple of projects that needed a lathe and a mill and at this point approached a friendly father-in-law who fronted the purchase price. Six weeks later when the projects were completed, invoiced and paid for I repaid the father-in-law and other than a line of credit and credit cards have never borrowed since.

Things went really well for several months but in 1981 the economy in Canada took a nosedive and within a few weeks my monthly revenue went from high four figures per month to nothing; I had been doing a lot of instrument work for the oil and gas industry which took it in the neck and the toolroom job had ended before this. This is when keeping contact with people who could provide a 'day job' paid off and I was able to put my own business in limbo for a year and get a position at the local university. This led to some part time teaching positions and when I was able to restart my own business in late 1982 I continued college teaching part time to pay the bills.

For a couple more years things went okay......okay meaning that I stayed in business but the monthly cash flow varied from being in the five figures positive to four figures negative; I became an expert at juggling things and perfected the art of 'forgetting' to sign checks before mailing them. The college teaching positions had come to an end because I was offered a permanent position and turned it down.

By late 1985 things were not too rosy and I had decided the only answer was to figure out some way of developing my own product to stabilize cash flow and give me some control over what I was doing. After a few abortive attempts in 'partnership' with people who were putting up the money I came to the conclusion that the world is full of shysters and going it alone was the only solution. At this point I got lucky and encountered a guy who needed a particular product; he had a market and had no idea how to design or make the product to serve this market. I made a few prototypes at my expense, he took them to the prospective customers and to shorten the story we finished up with an agreement that I would design and make and he would distribute; this was late 1986. Things went very well; I bought several old manual machines, big turret lathes mostly, and fitted them up with dedicated tooling for specific operations; at this point CNC equipment was well out of my reach. Then I discovered I had tied myself in with another shyster who took my designs, told all the customers that I had gone out of business and started getting the product made by a local CNC outfit.

Suddenly I was faced with the prospect of having to come out of the shop and start travelling to meet the customers face-to-face. But first I had to have face-to-face meetings with my landlord and suppliers to explain why I was missing payments; they all stuck by me with the landlord allowing me to fall six months behind in rent and one supplier providing castings for two years before I caught up with invoices. All this happened in 1991 and until around 1995 things were a bit rough but that was the bottom and by 1996 my former distributor was mostly out of business and I had reclaimed about 85% of the customers. By this time jetting around the world was becoming second nature and I think the record year was 1996 when I spent 120 days travelling.

Between 1996 and 1999 things continued to improve and in mid 1999 I bought my first CNC...a Haas HL1. Since then I have bought another 17 Haas machines, we export product to 16 countries and do not really have any competitors. We are a small business employing between 18 and 20 people but I am content....would I do it the same given the chance? Probably, it is difficult to identify shysters before they show their colors so I see no way to avoid occasionally being suckered. Can I give any advice? Yes, have faith in yourself and be honest; treat people the way you want to be treated and be upfront with them. If I could replay my experience I am not sure I would change things.

[Drakkn]

I had never been happy working for an employer,I have worked in the pharmaceutical industry,motor industry,refractory,gas and eventually as an IT person.So from the range of skills I achieve from office/export/manufacturing and IT you can guess I am not a spotty 16 year old.
Anyhow all the time I worked for someone else I have had an interest in music and guitars.So I got the opportunity to go on a guitar making course - So off I went and made this amazing guitar on the course - whilst doing so I had the light bulb moment and thought wow - I think this is the most fun I have had working - and it did not even feel like work.
So several courses later and some experience passed onto me by late father re woodworking as he was a cabinet maker came the mad idea of self emplyment.

So started to buy drills/saws etc and built a small workshop in my garage and sunsequently found this forum and have almost finished my cnc machine.

I do a lot of guitar repairs and have made a few guitars for people (not enough to sustain a full time business yet - but slowly getting there) .Lucky I have a bit of web design work to fall back on and a very understanding wife who has a quite well paid job.

Its sort of a hobby business that wants to hold its own as a full time enterprise - one day I am sure it will as my reputation slowly builds.

[kritic]

I could write a book on this subject, since I hate to type that much Ill keep it short. I started a shop in my garage and worked it partime. Lost my main job due to downsizing. So I went full time with it. Had to move it to an Industrial park later. Worked it for about 8yrs there. Had 5 cnc mills lathes wire edm and the usuall manual stuff. At its peak had 6 employees. Economy went south and so did it. Worked my butt off in that place 70-75 hrs a week. Sold the joint and would never do it again. 2 biggest problems-- getting the work and finding reliable employees. That will give you the ulcers. I got out to never go back. Made a good amount of money but in long run was not worth it to me. In my opinion nafda has ruined this trade. Im now a 5 axis programmer for a large shop about 90 employees. Only work we really get is the science fiction work that nobody else wants or can do, again all the good work gone to the low labor countries. Good luck to any of you that desire to have your own shop. 1 hint I will give you do something that nobody else does. Remember everybody has a lathe and a mill, ect.

[NC Cams]

Went from being an engineer in the auto industry (25+ years) to being an enginer by day and cam designer/grinder by night. Bought a share of a grinder about 9 years ago and then bought out the whole enchilada a couple years later when my business partner went bust in his tool and die shop.

Things were hectic but going well until my last boss/employer decided that I didn't have enough "dedication" to my day job and gave me an opportunity to grind cams full time one Friday afternoon - they always seem to dump you on Friday afternoon.....

Fortunately, we had a decent race customer base (word of mouth/past associate based) base at the time and did just fine. Then, after a few months, the major client (major "name" race team you'd all probably know) had a personnel change and we (along with some other vendors) got the heave ho. Lost nearly 80% of my business overnight.

Worked with anybody I knew to take in whatever work we could do to make ends meet. Our race business, fortunately, was at a high enough level that it gave us instant credibility to the engineering firms and prototype shops we do work for now.

The accuracy requirements are a piece of cake to achieve (we were already catering to fussy pro engine builders). But, it is/was the nit picking inspection requirements and documentation that bites us. There always seems to be new "issues" but they are getting less and less - Example: we just had a day and half rework job due to a 0.010" chamfer issue and that could have been waived had the OTHER vendor not FUBAR"d their part and put in the chamfer that they were supposed to machine and didn't.

The difficult thing is sales - especially if you are NOT a sales or face to face talking person. If you have these problems, GET A REP. If not, GOYA and "go see your customer". Be helpful and BE ACCURATE.

DON'T be "that's good enough" - nothing is. Don't accept "good enough". My partner did and his business folded. I didn't and my guys KNOW that I want and expect better from them.

Result: they do immaculate work, take pride in it and it shows. Moreover, they don't screw up and genuinely feel bad when/if they do. The look in their face shows when you give them a well earned "good job!" and personally hand them the paycheck each week. Sometimes you have to push/shove, sometimes you have to bend/listen. People are people and they all have issues/problems that sometimes spill over to work.

My guys can talk with me about just about anything - from familty to personal credit, whatever, I try to help them get thru the issue. Sometimes they FUBAR things too badly but you can generally help most folks. I've been rewarded with a guy who was a deadbeat who couldn't even work for or get along with his father who is now a true artisan with the cam grinder. You just have to learn how to talk/deal/work with and motivate people.....

Oh, and it does NOT hurt to pay your bills and do so promptly. My turning source learned that lesson and he's stepped up his program TREMENDOUSLY. We had a few "talks" along the way, of course, but he did what he promised and he got more work and more profitable work in the process.

Basically, I outline what I needed/expected, payed when I said I did (which was faster than any of his other deadbeat clients), I didn't try to chizel him on price, and we've gotten along famously as a result. From zip to 5 figures of $'s in turnings in less than a year - local guys treated me like crap and gave crap service and crap quality and expected premium payment yesterday. I've all but quit doing ANY business with the locals - too much ineptness.

Hope this insight gives help and guidance to the ambitious...

[KustomKoncepts]

I might not be a machinist, I am a airbrush artist and a graphics shop. I do share similar problems that I have read here. I started my business with a $100 airbrush and $30 water based Auto Air Paint.

I was still in college (20) and airbrushed helmets and snowmobiles in my 2 bedroom apartment. I graduated and moved to a different town tryed to work out of a friends parents garage, 3 months later failed. gave up and moved to Fargo, ND.

worked crap jobs for a year and got the brainiac Idea of trying it again. It took a year to get a High risk loan from a developement company for 20K. bought a 18K vortex spray in bedliner machine. got a 2000 sq ft shop. I didn't sell a bedliner for first 4 months. was doing 3 trucks a day in its high point. after a year bough my first Vinyl plotter. started doing signs and lettering (I worked in a sign shop in college)

a year after that bought a 54 Digital vinyl printer/cutter. 6 mo later a 61" laminator. a year after that I retired the vortex machine (bedliner industry is dead). tore down plastic booth from bedliner and built a better room for signs. and now a year later I am buying a Shop Sabre 4896 CNC router to cut and do kooler signs. I have never had or want a employee. I do it all myself am like it like that.

It costs 53,000 to pay the bills for one year at my current overhead and loan payments. I spend $50,000 on materials and supplies a year and I do around $120K to $140K in gross sales a year.

I Hate what I have created but I love what I do. I hear of other guys working 70-75hr a week and that is kinda what you can expect owning your own shop. the new guys who think they can work 30 -40 will be gone next year. you have to have a unique product at a competative price.

I am 27 now and don't plan on slowing down yet. I have created a good client base and unique diverse products. but I know this could all crash down at a monets notice. you have to have fear of failure that is what drives me.