[handlewanker]

Hi, as they say, you get older as you get wiser....at least you came away with something more than just $$$$, learning a craft or trade stays with you for the rest of yout natural, whereas if'n you had stayed in one place only and only learned what they were doing, 'cos the money was a bit better, you'd never have expanded your learning capablity, and money is soon spent and forgotten.

When I finished my apprenticeship in the late 50's, the first dozen or so jobs I got rarely lasted for more than a few weeks and with piss poor pay, bottom dollar etc, but at least you got wiser as to the workings of the workshop circle, and once you were going the rounds the money got better.

I was also a Union man all my working life, and while the Unions had a reputation for workplace discontent, it was because the employers wouldn't play a fair game....more fool them.

One place I worked for made a point of paying the non Union workers a higher rate than the Union people, so we just didn't co-operate with the non Unionists or support them when they got disadvantaged, like when they had to come in on public holidays or weekends to get the work out or get fired for not turning up.....we didn't weep for them.
Ian.

[DigitalPunk]

Hi, as they say, you get older as you get wiser....at least you came away with something more than just $$$$, learning a craft or trade stays with you for the rest of yout natural, whereas if'n you had stayed in one place only and only learned what they were doing, 'cos the money was a bit better, you'd never have expanded your learning capablity, and money is soon spent and forgotten.

When I finished my apprenticeship in the late 50's, the first dozen or so jobs I got rarely lasted for more than a few weeks and with piss poor pay, bottom dollar etc, but at least you got wiser as to the workings of the workshop circle, and once you were going the rounds the money got better.

I was also a Union man all my working life, and while the Unions had a reputation for workplace discontent, it was because the employers wouldn't play a fair game....more fool them.

One place I worked for made a point of paying the non Union workers a higher rate than the Union people, so we just didn't co-operate with the non Unionists or support them when they got disadvantaged, like when they had to come in on public holidays or weekends to get the work out or get fired for not turning up.....we didn't weep for them.
Ian.

Unions are what are making companies go bankrupt and people are losing millions of jobs. Business just cant pay their ridiculous wages requested by the unions and why should they have too? After all, its their business they started and risked everything to build. You don't like the hours, benefits or pay don't work there.

Jobs will keep getting out sourced, no new job will be created and there will be no descent paying jobs until unions are stopped. Whats better, 3 guys making $20 an hour or one guy making $60? That union worker making $60 an hour is steeling jobs from 2 other people. There is only so much money you can bleed out of a company before it dies and everyone loses their job.

[Tuksonrider]

Hi!

I'm new here, and know absolutely nothing about being a machinist. All I know is that I'm sick of my job (Systems & Network Administrator). I've worked in IT for almost 20 years now. I'm sick of it. I hate showing up to work. I hate the stress, the deadlines, and the pay is "Meh". I'm salary and on call. The only thing going for it is that I'm good at it, and State Retirement I'll receive if I stick to where I am at for 19 more years.

I like working with my hands, and my dad was a journeyman machinist. Hell, he was making what I make now 30 years ago ($45k/yr). I could make more in the private sector, but I don't want to do more of the same. I just need a job that is more fulfilling, and I like creating things and working with machines, software applications, and computers. I'm also decent in math.

I want to become a cnc machinist, but should I? I'll be 40 next month. I'll have to go to a community college, and they offer a 2yr associates degree.

Then probably have to get an apprenticeship somewhere.

I have a family (wife and a 17yr old). I'm the only bread-winner, but fortunately, I have no debt other than a house mortgage and utilities. (no credit card debt, car payment, and no student loans...finally). I can afford to pay for a community college out of pocket.

Is it worth starting over at 40?

I would need to make close to what I'm making now asap (about $20-$23/hr).

[Tuksonrider]

Oh, what really pushed me to look into being a machinist was this CNN article:
Desperately seeking Americans for manufacturing jobs - Feb. 16, 2012

Article true or a load of phooey?

But like I said, i like working with my hands, and respected what my dad did. The article gave me a little hope.

[handlewanker]

Tucsonrider, you're one of those people that started out wanting to earn big money without getting his hands dirty......well you made your choice, and now you want to get down and dirty 'cos the present job is boring.

Perhaps you forget that when you eventually learn to cut metal the new way, the person who employs you considers you to be still raw and won't pay you what someone else with years of experience will get....but you with all your comittments (changing horses in mid stream) will automatically want top dollar just to pay your way with all those encumbrences you picked up along the way.

If'n you don't cut metal 'cos you want to, you'll end up cutting metal 'cos you have to, and that is a soul destroying dead end tunnel most try to get out of, especially when the boss tells you he can hire a fresh out of college kid for $10 an hour after you are required to train him to take your job.

BTW, I don't expect you will be considering relocating to look for that gold mine job, but if'n you do....selling your house and buying another in a different locality will eat into your finances big time.

I relocated three times in my life, but always for a better opportunity, but then I was a born to cut metal apprentice served tradesman, and finally have spent 50 years in the metal cutting trade, the last 17 of which I spent behind a desk as a planning technician.

If'n you put $50,000 in a tin box and used it to fund your new desire to cut metal by buying a new CNC lathe/mill set-up and installing it in a garage workshop, that would be only a small part of the money you'd be out of pocket by the time 10 years had passed and you made the big time, all the time trying to compete with others doing the same thing.

Your new job expectation will lead you on a path of people who try to make money with obsolete machinery, worn out tooling and working their underpaid employees to the max....and if'n you think that's job satisfaction......BTW, don't expect to retire at 50 with a bundle, it ain't gonna happen.
Ian.

[Tuksonrider]

Thanks for the advice. Though, trust me, I got my hands plenty dirty before going into IT. IT just came easy for me and started out as a hobby while I was doing carpentry and digging ditches full-time for daily pay.

But I think you're right. I looked at local job scene for machinist, and though starting pay is roughly $17/hr, who knows what the job market will look like 3-4 years from now, and I can't put my life and my family's life on hold for a career shift. That and I'm sure I'll be beat out by some more experienced machinists looking for jobs.

So now my dream is to buy some land up north, and build me a cabin.

[handlewanker]

A career shift is a big decision to make with a family to care for, and they won't understand your motives when you make the move.

BTW, with the Global Climate Change thing being talked about most every other day, wouldn't a move up North be in the wrong direction?

I hear the further North you go the harder the Winters and Summers get....too cold and wet or too hot and dry.

Perhaps a property on fairly high ground with a stream running through it that you can dam up and make your own electricity, somewhere where it doesn't get snow.....I hate snow.....went halfway round the World to get away from it.....give me a 30 deg C day and I love it....LOL.
Ian.

[maz43]

Your new job expectation will lead you on a path of people who try to make money with obsolete machinery, worn out tooling and working their underpaid employees to the max....and if'n you think that's job satisfaction......BTW, don't expect to retire at 50 with a bundle, it ain't gonna happen.

Sad, but so true.
That about sums it up in a nut shell IMHO.

Maz

[handlewanker]

Hi, if'n you really want to get away from it all and go back to basics, you could do a bit of research on Earth Ship and Michael Reynolds, the Garbage Warrior....they build some fantastic alternative lifestyle homes around the World, some in the Arizona Desert and a lot in France and UK.

It's a dedicated alternative totally sustainable lifestyle, and the raw materials are easy to come by.
Ian.

[DALACHEAX1]

Top pay for a fully qualified CNC machinist/programmer in my area is $21 to $23 an hour unless youre in Defense or Aerospace. This is 10 to 25 yrs experience BTW. Tuksonrider, even after you get your training at JR college and 3 to 4 yrs experience you still wont be making what you think is a good wage. I suggest you learn to like your current career choice, you have no idea what you will be facing otherwise.

[handlewanker]

A chilly prospect, but the truth nevertheless.

Changing horses in midstream is only for the well heeled or those at the start of their present job cycle and still single.

Sometimes you just have to take a serious look at your present occupation and decide that it can be a worthwhile career if'n you've been making a success of it sofar.

You could always set your sights on higher goals within the same framework of your present occupation and the challenge to achieve them will keep you from getting bored, in other words go foreward from a position of strength.
Ian.

[Techman2]

I get 40-60/hr + 1.5 OT but I travel a bit. 20 yrs exp. and high end CAD package (UG).

[marco520]

Machinist don't get paid well... unless you can do other jobs too (ie. metrology)
I think the best paid machinists are in North America, else where are paid extremely low compare to what they're making.

[metlcutr55]

no time to read this whole thread but some observations.

i get a lil over $18 hr to run a 6 pallet hor mill. that is good for this region. i roll out 3 or 4 families of parts usually in groups of 2 or 3, lot sizes from 50 to 3000. i run a day or two on the same thing, or up to 5 weeks, ave being in the middle. it can be monotonous, and sometimes the alternative to monotony is worse, chasing problems with tooling, speeds feeds, methods etc with little help from management but plenty of criticism if it takes too long. it is what it is, its a factory, workin for the man.

in the prev 12 years i worked for myself, in the garage on a cnc eng lathe and a cnc knee mill. after 10 yr of running the machinery, not the iron but the 20 yr old pc mill control and the same age lathe fanuc were getting real finicky. combine that with the bankers and lawyers, govt and wall street trashing the economy a few years ago, and that garage shops like mine being sub sub sub contractors are the 1st ones out of the loop, thats what put me back workin for the man.

the man pays me $50k a year for a 50 hour week, about 1/2 my sales in the garage shop, but sales doesnt = income. i just turned down a $23/hr offer, almost $5 more than the man is paying me, and i would have been in charge of picking my new machine (vert mill), tooling, and been doing much smaller lots, all the programming and setup, carte blanche kind of, sounds great.

but spreadsheet that, with things like my now max $500 out of pocket for any medical issues vs $5000 and a 20% copay, the stable 50 hr weeks vs a place whos staff varies between 25 and 7 or 8, and the workweek between 60 and 32 hrs a week or less depending on workload, a 10% end of year profit share vs nada, just trying to point out that the whole topic of this poll is not the best criteria to judge a jobs compensation.

[handlewanker]

Have you ever thought about moving to follow the grass......or is that a fate worse than death in your book.

I went intercontinental in following the grass and never looked back.

Best of luck in your comfort zone, it takes courage in grasping the nettle.
Ian.

[Anders6612]

29000 sek/month, have worked in buisness for 27 years.
About 3850 dollars per month. And some good 35% in tax.
Makes 40 hours weeks, with 5 weeks vacation and some
payed free days due to some Christian poo.

[B-RAD]

I read some of this thread, and want to get into the machining industry, but I live in a small town in Iowa and make 37$hr fixing wind turbines, but the job requires travel... which I don't want.
Anyone know of any opportunities around here, or possibly threads or websites on helping start your own business, loans, etc?

[cncmakers001]

About 21USD here.

[D.L]

Well in Australia - note to Handlew*nker,

We used to have it really good, I mean good. But that has all changed so far as Melbourne is concerned, we used get tool and die work from the car industry, the average programmers pay averaged 25 to 27 aud per hr.

Now, car companies are idling or closing down lines, all the tool and die contracts are won by asian suppliers and the wages have fallen to 23 aud per hr, no overtime prospects.

I've played the feild for 20 years and have seen with my own eyes we are in decline, but slowly recovering.
Be happy if you have a job!

[handlewanker]

Hi all, you can only blame the Government of the day when they allow unregulated imports that destroy the working class jobs.

The people who import the cars on a large scale are not working class as such, and couldn't give a rats arse if the car imports erode the living of the workforce, just so long as the other half of the population buy the imports and give them a living.

The government is fond of creating taxes to pay for their projects, so why not an import tax on all cars to make them more expensive than the home market produced ones, or else they'll just have to pay unemployment benefits to the workers who for no fault of their own lost their jobs to the unregulated foreign trade.

I would go a step further and make the car registration tax double for any new foreign import, so if a person who wants/prefers a foreign import, let them pay for being unpatriotic.

Industry must be protected if your livelihood depends on it.....there can be no argument on that score.....ever!

The irony is, most of the car workers buy cheap foreign cars due to the price difference, so they cut their own balls off and bitterly complain......how stupid can you get.

Perhaps Bicycle Bill (Tony Abbot) could use this as a policy for winning votes at the next election, he desperately needs it with the attitude he has and credibility is not one of his best points.

It has been said by some economists (who don't know what the real World is about) that if you protect an industry the standards will fall due to the lack of competition and accountency, but a 5 year unconditional warranty, money back guarantee, back to the manufacturer takes care of that problem.....manufacturers must be held accountable for shoddy goods, no matter what.
Ian.