[waltpermenter]

You're right about someone on the other side of the big water waiting to knock you off. I make a line of running gear for remote control, gasoline powered model boats. My stuff is more expensive than some of the other stuff you can buy out there, but I pride myself in making QUALITY stuff. I put a warranty on my stuff that says if it fails due to material or manufacturing defect, I will repair it, replace it or refund your money. YOUR CHOICE.

The thing to do if you're concerned with someone across the big water knocking you off, is to make something that won't sell in big enough quantities for someone over there to want to mess with it.

I had a real shop for close to 20 years. In October 2007, I had a heart attack in the shop that resulted in 5 cardiac bypasses and a new aortic valve in my heart. After I got out of the hospital, my wife gave me a choice. I could have my shop, or I could have here and I had till January 1, 2008 to make up my mind. I sold the shop on January 8, 2008. I think I made the right choice.

I made an attempt at retirement, but that just wasn't for me. I had a few part time jobs, but with the economy the way it was, when work slowed down, the part time guy was the first one out the door. After about 3 years, I bought my machine more to have something to do that as a way to make money,

I call myself Mid Day Machining now because I seldom start before 11:00 AM and I try to be finished by 5:00 PM. A lot of times quitting time depends on whether or not my wife is going to be home and what she is doing. I HAVE been known to be out in the shop/garage till 10:00 or 11:00 PM.

I have some pictures of some stuff I have made on another computer, but right now that computer won't communicate with the monitor. I'm going to get that fixed today. Then I'll post some pictures of some of the stuff I have made on my Tormach.

Another great inspirational story Steve, I am also one looking forward to you sharing some pictures of things you made on your Tormach.
Walt

[WOTDesigns]

I already knew the market for my product and there ain't a DAMN thing easy about what I've done. I'm gone doing shows and rallies 15 weeks a year, I lose money on half the shows, I pay thousands a month in advertising, my parts cost and overhead mean on average I make less than $15 each when selling to dealers and much less selling to distributors. $15 to machine 4 separate parts in 12 completely different machining set ups/fixtures, then assemble and package the 14 parts not counting having to locktite #4x1/8 screws and 2-56 screws.

I laugh when some tart whines that they worked 10 hours of overtime last week... 100 week is average for me. I'm young and building a brand and business. Now isn't the time for silly things like sleep, hobbies and social life. Now is for work. I'll sleep when I "retire" and just work 5 twelve hour days a week.

Brian
WOT Designs

[sansbury]

It's not quite THAT bad! I've had several products that have done well, considering I was not interested in building a lot of them. I had several products I did for classic Jaguar cars. There was always more demand than I cared to meet, so I did limited runs of each product, some lasting months, some years, then moved on to something new. The trick is finding a niche that is specialized enough that there is some barrier to entry, but there is a ready market.

Absolutely. One thing I like about your example is that I'm guessing a lot of classic Jag owners have a few bucks to spend even if they're not Jay Leno-wealthy. I think people underprice their products far more often than they overprice them, and the problems that causes are more often fatal.

With Kickstarter and similar sites to get the word out, I sometimes think almost anything will sell.

The issue with that line of thinking is that you don't see the projects that fail because lack of publicity/attention is a leading predictor a project will fail. IIRC around 60% of Kickstarter projects fail, and the success rates on other, less-selective sites are a lot lower. I've made parts for some people who've been successful on KS, and known a few others who've had varied results, and one of the things that I've seen from this is that crowdfunding sites are a potentially good place to take an idea from 100 buyers to 1000, but a terrible place to take an idea from 0-10.

I forget the exact numbers but a huge percentage of successful kickstarters get 25-50% funded within the first few days. It's very much a rich-get-richer dynamic. If you have 10 or 20 people interested, I'd cover that myself and do a small batch just for them, then use them as part of your marketing strategy to build an audience. And the people who've had successful campaigns that I know, they all spent real money--$5k or more--producing videos and hiring designers for their websites, that sort of thing. It's a huge improvement over 10 years ago when your only choice was to take out a second mortgage to pay for a run of 100 or 1000 units that you didn't know would sell, but it's still a tough hustle.

[flatsix66]

.....Or should I assume this is my blunder for buying the machine without an actual need for it ....

I resemble that remark. I never told my wife that I need to make money now with the machine but that I'm training for early retirement....she has been buying it so far

[CNC-Dude]

CNC'rs, I have had a blast with this conversation! Not that I am set on what I will produce, but that calendar idea seems like a no brainer. Even if I never get to making the copies ;-)

I also want to thank you guys for providing your success stories. Fascinating stuff indeed!

One topic which has appeared more than once, and appears to be the root of many monetizable endeavors, is hobbies. Brian likes biking, and he came with a product for other bikers. Steve likes RC cars and Ray likes Jaguars (or something to that line). In the same fashion, if I were into shooting, I could know of a trillion parts which could be improved for guns to sell to other gun enthusiasts. Fishing, flying, homebrewing (and the list goes on), and there is certainly an item somebody needs which nobody has made and we know how to make on our machines.

So I kept thinking and thinking "why is it that I cannot find this hobby related part??? CRAPITY CRAPS!!!!"

Well, I think I am living what we call in philosophy, a circular reasoning! "I want to do something with my CNC hobby, so that I can enjoy from my CNC hobby. As a result I should develop something for my CNC hobby!"

BAM! WHAT THE HECK???

Of course you could imagine there is a trillion things I could develop for the CNC world, so maybe that is what I should try to focus on.

Or perhaps, what I need to do is get me an ACTUAL HOBBY!!!

What do you know? Isn't life funny?

[CNC-Dude]

I forget the exact numbers but a huge percentage of successful kickstarters get 25-50% funded within the first few days. It's very much a rich-get-richer dynamic. If you have 10 or 20 people interested, I'd cover that myself and do a small batch just for them, then use them as part of your marketing strategy to build an audience. And the people who've had successful campaigns that I know, they all spent real money--$5k or more--producing videos and hiring designers for their websites, that sort of thing. It's a huge improvement over 10 years ago when your only choice was to take out a second mortgage to pay for a run of 100 or 1000 units that you didn't know would sell, but it's still a tough hustle.

I actually agree with this point of view. And in fact, when I was doing my KS campaign 2.5 years ago, I found an article on how KS hides the failed campaigns so that it looks like most of them are successful.

The real truth with KS is that if you don't have a large following (or a lot of cash to start with), it is not as easy as it seems. Most of the ridiculously successful projects usually come from people who already have some kind of funding (sometime millions!).

This is not to say that KS is a lost battle. If the product is really good, and you manage to spread the word so that the project becomes featured, you could get some very nice exposure and end up with way much more cash than anticipated!

I would love to do a KS and get some serious cash overnight, although to be honest that is not the kind of project I am looking for. In essence, and at the moment, I am looking for the proper excuse to buy more tools. Basically, my nose crosses the solar system whenever I tell my wife something like "I need this tool to make more money!" And such weight is starting to mess my back ;-)

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Of course you could imagine there is a trillion things I could develop for the CNC world, so maybe that is what I should try to focus on.

That is what I did. My current business is manufacturing power drawbars and auto-toolchangers for CNC machines. There are TONs of thing that could be done. Even simple ones. Look at the ProTram and other products they make. All simple, but work really well.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Bryan Turner]

CNC-Dude, if you want a CNC-hobby related idea that could make good money, here's one:

A "supersize" horizontal rotary table to increase the milling footprint of small CNC mils. Basically, the 770 has a 7.5" Y axis which is quite limiting, but a horizontal rotary table with 7.5" radius (15" diameter) would almost double the work area (from 105 sq.in to 176 sq. in). This is true for basically every small CNC mill - thus a single solution would be a viable product for quite a large audience (obviously the table size differs for each machine, but the mechanics would be the same).

The catch is two-fold:
- These mills also have relatively short Z height, so it would have to be pretty thin (1-2" loss of height?).
- Existing rotary tables of this size are enormously heavy (200-300 lbs) which essentially eats all available table weight.

Herein lies the challenge - how thin/light can a table be made and still retain the rigidity needed for milling?

There are a few factors making the job easier:
- It doesn't need to support cutting while turning! Most hobby level CNC machines are programmed by hobby level operators, who probably don't have 4+axis milling software. It just needs to "rotate the other quarter/half onto the table" to eliminate the need for operator setup time to flip a plate/part.
- It can mechanically lock in place after turning, aiding rigidity.
- Only needs precise positioning in ~2-4 positions.
- It could rotate directly against the mill table without excessively wearing it (since it doesn't rotate often).
- If the machine doesn't have extra M-codes to activate the plate, a simple trigger switch can be poked by the mill itself (in an unused corner of the mill table).

Most of the mechanics can hang off the front of the mill table, under the rotary plate. Just the plate needs to extend onto the mill table, and the whole assembly can bolt down using standard T-slot bolts (most mill tables are longer in X, so there's extra space available on each side for bolts).

This saves a lot of time for operators - one tool can be used on an entire side without operator intervention. For a piece with 6 tools and 2 rotations per side, that's a difference of 12 tool changes, and the operator can leave the machine alone for twice as long.

I've been pondering this upgrade on my machine for awhile, would be a lovely addition!
--Bryan

[EvolveES]

I would love to see what Bryan Suggested. I have pondered the same thing, the best ideas i can come up with so far is a plate that indexes off of 2-4 surfaces on the bottom that when flipped and aligned with reference surfaces (wither bolted to the mill or like the jaw of a vice) is will be such that it has rotated around it's center. A rotary table would be far better.

[popspipes]

Just my opinion, cnc machines, tooling, accessories, software etc for the machine are expensive, so maybe thats what needs to be focused on, or something made for the industrial market.

What comes to mind now is a driver for the Vista cnc pendants, not machining, but a software guy could make a few bucks on it.

Another thing is a shield or fixture that would keep probes indicators and such from crashing into the workpiece inadvertently. May be with the advent of the new operating system that wont be a problem anymore??

I have ruined 3 cheapo indicators for the Z height and 2 coaxial indicators so far due to stupidity on my part and due to software issues.

maybe machined spindle mounts for a router for engraving.
A nice machined flex arm for led lighting.
collet holders that hold 10 or so collets for different jobs on the machine. I make mine from wood and soak them with oil.
Vise handles machined from aluminum with your own special twist on them, maybe engraved with the ops name etc.

One thing that I would have been interested in was a spindle balancer, maybe a ball bearing system similar to the one used on 4 wheel drive vehicles (Tire balancers).

I have done things like this all my working career, some things go over some dont. Just find a problem and then work on a way to solve it, and hopefully you can use the Tormach to make the parts needed for it.

[joeyjrc]

Learn selling on ebay, almost anything you make will sell on ebay. You need to know how to list it properly, category,key words, prices...
I've made a nice side business from machining parts and modifying existing parts and selling them on ebay. I only list what I have made and ready to ship so its not stressful. If I'm too busy at my full time job I don't make anything or list anything, no big deal. Or if I'm exhausted from work but I just want to get my next group of parts finished and listed on ebay I'll suck it up and after I help put the kids to bed get out to my garage and machine parts.
I've had my tormach 770 for almost 3 years now, love it. When we buy a bigger house and bigger garage I'll buy a hass mill, but I'll most likely keep my little 770. Love that little machine.

[CNC-Dude]

Like I was saying the other day, my intention of making a few bucks is so that I can justify buying more tools. My wife is no longer buying the "I need this and this in order to make money". Clearly I have exhausted said argument. Here is a quick cartoon I put together to illustrate what many of us may be going through, heh heh heh...

[Spinnetti]

I don't make any money with it, but enjoy making model airplane parts (Full scale landing gear for large scale R/C planes). If you aren't careful, it turns into a job, then its no fun

[Spinnetti]

I use my Tormach 1100 Series 2 to prototype jewelry components from machinable wax. I use these machined masters to make molds which I use for casting pewter. I do not sell much directly from the mill, but I make my living selling the jewelry we cast.

Gastineau Studio Berea Kentucky 40403

Nice stuff... Get a Form1 SLA 3D printer for lost "plastic" and never look back

[CNC-Dude]

DARN IT! Had replied to this thread and then lost it all... Oh well, here I go again...

The idea of a slim rotary table for small machines seems like a very lucrative endeavor! It is a little bit more complex than knives and bottle openers, though. In fact, it is my impression anybody trying this would need a team of mechanical engineers (or at least being one with a bunch of experience). It is definitely way out of my field of expertise, but perhaps somebody reads this in a future and notices there is a market for such an item.

The shop tool ideas are a little bit closer to reality for me. Not the crash protector as that requires some serious artificial intelligence, but the shop related accessories. I will definitely study this list closer.

I do agree with eBay being an excellent asset! Have been selling on Ebay for over 15 years. As stated, you can post what you have when you have it. That way we can avoid a mess like the one we are seeing on a different thread where somebody has not been able to deliver the goods for well over two months, but somehow the product is available on eBay!

Thanks to all for sharing your ideas and stories! I feel like I am getting closer ;-)

[popspipes]

Attachment 269826

The next time you loose a partialy typed reply, click the auto saved content button, it has saved mine many times.........

[popspipes]

Something I have been mulling over is a high speed spindle for engraving. I have a 3 phase model boat motor that has a speed controller and a water jacket for cooling, ball bearings, would need a decent collet chuck for it, but the rpm and power is there thats for sure, and they are relatively cheap.

Also a 4 th axis rotary tabe, but using a 3" variety as most of my parts are small, it would be nice for rotary engraving etc.

[Ken Gastineau]

Nice stuff... Get a Form1 SLA 3D printer for lost "plastic" and never look back

I have thought about it, but I have been spending current resources getting setup for blacksmithing. Do you have experience with 3d printing?

Though printing may be superior for jewelry model making, machine tools can work a greater number of materials and sometimes that comes in really handy.

[CadRhino]

Plus 1 for a better 4th axis

[phoneman]

I have a 4" table that I CNCed. I use it on my mini mill that I CNCed. I would like to use it on my 770 but would have to change the motor tuning and current settings. It looks like Tormach is not going to allow access to motor tuning in Path Pilot.

The two things I would like to see is 1 a lower cost tool setter. Tormach wants $875 or so for theirs. 2 a mobile touch pad.

Dave