[joeyjrc]

Can someone tell me what "on board conversational programming" is? It's listed under the features of the new path pilot.
Thanks.

[WOTDesigns]

In theory it's a CAM program built in. The idea is you can walk up the the machine with a blueprint and a block of metal, program holes, contour, pockets, bolt hole circle, etc right at the machine. Sounds GREAT... works like #$@& compared to any decent CAM package for anything other than the most basic of parts. I don't mean Tormach's version isn't great, I mean none are. HAAS, mach3, HURCO, I've tried/used them all and even paid for the HAAS option. Very clunky. Much easier to sit at my desk and program there. Not to mention verify is easier to check the programming, most g code readers will allow simple color coding that makes reading the output easier. And even the worst cam has more options and power than the best conversational controls.

That said... If you ONLY need a 2" hole milled and a bold hole circle around it... Conversational is easyish, but my experience is trying to relearn them every 7th blue moon when they are useful is a massive pita

Brian
WOT Designs

[tmarks11]

Watch the recent nyccnc video. He demonstrates the conversational programming for both the mill and the lathe.

Essentially canned routines to generate g-code for common things like facing, pocketing, engraving, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUJqcrYAFng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFSy0RoFyGM

[JohnToner]

I have to agree with Brian. Conversational is, in my opinion, an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem. For simple 2D or 2.5D, its easier and faster to just manually bang out the g-code.

[LRF]

Conversational is, in my opinion, an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem.

I agree +1. I think its termed "marketing"

[mountaindew]

Maybe "on board" is confusing and what joe is questioning?
Anyway I like nycnc videos, he puts some time and effort into them. The example he did using the mill conversation program interface is exactly what I use the mach versions for. I made a couple tts tool holder trays using machs wizards / conversation system back when I first set mill up and did not have cam software. Now all I use the wizards for is to size and square or prep stock. The path pilot versions look more consistent and could help a person mill out some complex work with no cam just a dimensional drawing and some planning and skill using them.
md

[Steve Seebold]

I have to agree with Brian. Conversational programming is great if ALL you do is profiles, pockets, holes and hole patterns.

If you need to cut a surface and all you have is conversational programming, you're SOL.

Haas has what they call Intuitive Programming. I have a customer who has a Haas TM1P with their Intuitive Programming, and after watching their guy use it it's a real joke.

I can't speak to the one coming from Tormach, I'll just have to wait and see.

If I decide to go for it, I'll buy the computer with the operating system on board so I don't have to give up my Mach 3.

Mach 3 has worked flawlessly for me for close to 4 years now, and I always say, "IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT".

I have never been able to make cutter comp work in Mach 3, and if that's the only advantage to the new system, I''ll probably stay right where I am.

It's way too easy and cost effective for me to sit down and reprogram a part with a larger or smaller cutter than it is to invest in a new computer. Especially right now. I think I'll wait at least 2 years before I decide what to do and let someone else work the all the bugs out.

[popspipes]

I used the Wizards in Mach when I first got the machine, now I do everything in cam as its easier for me to do it that way, and I have forgotten how to use them now.

Cutter comp, I use Sprutcam for that.

[MichaelHenry]

There are a lot of times where a conversational wizard will be faster for me than bothering with SprutCAM. Surfacing is a good example of that as well as drilling/tapping a few holes in a one off part. In my view they can be very handy for the prototyper, not so much for the production machinist like Steve or WOT. But then I've never taken the time to learn much G-code.

Mike

[WOTDesigns]

I think u nailed it Mike. "easy for surfacing..."

Little hard to type get code on my phone but here... Quick 15x8 suface

M6 T18 G43 H18
G54 G90
G0 X-2 Y-1
Z3
M3 S3000
M8
G1 Z0 F50
M98 P1 L8
G0 Z3
M30
%

O1
G91
X15
Y1
X-15
6
Y1
G90
M99

Brian
WOT Designs

[WOTDesigns]

Point being, that it's easier and more versatile (imo) to just type the code for surfacing, drilling,etc. Also saves a lot of broken tooling and parts being able to read the g code. Hell I have to type on a non-qwerty keyboard on the has and it's still easier than messing with 9 million questions on the intuitive programming software and THEN find out I have to move my zero from the previous op. WTF?! Just type it.

I will miss the "learn" function on mach3 if that isn't on path pilot. Loved that.

LOL so funny story. The guy is coming to pick up the Tormach in 2 weeks... Already paid for... I went ahead and ordered the path pilot kit! Want to install and play with it to experience first hand AND since he doesn't have CAM yet, and it's virtually impossible for the conversational to be WORSE than the monstrosity of garbage that was in mach3 I bought it so I can learn it and teach him.

Guess I just wanted to play with a new toy.

Brian
WOT Designs

[joeyjrc]

OK, I'll follow up my 1st dumb question with another dumb question, what is the learn function on mach 3? I've never used that yet. Maybe I should re-read the manual, sorry guys.
Thanks,
Joe

[popspipes]

OK, I'll follow up my 1st dumb question with another dumb question, what is the learn function on mach 3? I've never used that yet. Maybe I should re-read the manual, sorry guys.
Thanks,
Joe

I think the learn function has to do with the probing routines.

[Steve Seebold]

I think u nailed it Mike. "easy for surfacing..."

Little hard to type get code on my phone but here... Quick 15x8 suface

M6 T18 G43 H18
G54 G90
G0 X-2 Y-1
Z3
M3 S3000
M8
G1 Z0 F50
M98 P1 L8
G0 Z3
M30
%

O1
G91
X15
Y1
X-15
6
Y1
G90
M99

Brian
WOT Designs

You're right Brian, flat surfacing (face milling) is super easy to G Code manually, but what are you going to do if your surface has a shape to it? Sure you could type it in manually on a QWERTY keyboard, BUT, what are you going to do when you have a program that has 300,000 lines just to do a small portion of of that surface? That's where your CAM software comes in to play. You're not going to do that with conversational programming.

FADAL came out with a conversational control in about 1999 or 2000. Their conversational software was actually GIBBSCAM. It was about an $8,000.00 option, AND it was upgradeable. Then in about March of 2008, FADAL went out of business. I sold my FADAL in January 2008 for $25,000.00. If I had waited till March, I'd have been lucky to get 10K.

I have done several jobs on my Tormach that were over 350,000 lines long. I am running some prototype parts right now that require work on all 6 sides, and the program for the top side of the part is over 100,000 lines.

[MikeC8]

You're right Brian, flat surfacing (face milling) is super easy to G Code manually, but what are you going to do if your surface has a shape to it? Sure you could type it in manually on a QWERTY keyboard, BUT, what are you going to do when you have a program that has 300,000 lines just to do a small portion of of that surface? That's where your CAM software comes in to play. You're not going to do that with conversational programming.

FADAL came out with a conversational control in about 1999 or 2000. Their conversational software was actually GIBBSCAM. It was about an $8,000.00 option, AND it was upgradeable. Then in about March of 2008, FADAL went out of business. I sold my FADAL in January 2008 for $25,000.00. If I had waited till March, I'd have been lucky to get 10K.

I have done several jobs on my Tormach that were over 350,000 lines long. I am running some prototype parts right now that require work on all 6 sides, and the program for the top side of the part is over 100,000 lines.

This is comparing manual cgode to conversational. Not conversational vs cam, or even manual gcode vs cam. Basically opps that could be done on a manual mill, you could use the conversational programing, or write up some gcode by hand.

[WOTDesigns]

Steve, I'm not sure what you point was there. I already said I prefer CAM and was responding to a specific example of "needing" conversational for something that takes seconds to type

Brian
WOT Designs

[WOTDesigns]

OK, I'll follow up my 1st dumb question with another dumb question, what is the learn function on mach 3? I've never used that yet. Maybe I should re-read the manual, sorry guys.
Thanks,
Joe

Teach is a *****en little tool in Mach that records all your MDI inputs and saves them as a g code file you can edit, save, run from. Pretty handy.

Brian
WOT Designs

[MichaelHenry]

Point being, that it's easier and more versatile (imo) to just type the code for surfacing, drilling,etc. Also saves a lot of broken tooling and parts being able to read the g code. Hell I have to type on a non-qwerty keyboard on the has and it's still easier than messing with 9 million questions on the intuitive programming software and THEN find out I have to move my zero from the previous op. WTF?! Just type it.

That's a valid point for someone that is very comfortable with G-code or takes the time to become so. I know enough to do the surfacing, but not with the drill cycles and the initialization code. I can learn, but never seem to find the time before the next surfacing or quicky drill cycle job comes up and then it is faster to jog around with the pendant than to dig into the G-code definitions. Actually, the wizards would probably teach me the needed G-code as a by-product of using them.

Have fun with the new PP toy!

Mike

[bhurts]

For drilling you can just save a basic program template with the codes needed and no drill points. One for pecking, and one for one shot drilling. Then you can open it and add points then save it under another name. That is of course for short drilling programs. If you need more then ten or 20 holes cam is faster for me.

Ben

[bhurts]

Don't forget to change your Q,R, and Z values as well.

Ben