[davo727]

Women machinists? I want pictures for proof Dave

[10bulls]

...
My words to live by: "if its to be, its up to me!"

or my dads old school version "if you want something done right do it yourself"

Just stumbled across this post.

It's been a hard week and i haven't had much sleep, but that sentiment has kinda become my mantra lately. My version is "Take care of you and yours because no other bugger will!"

If you can live sustainably and know how to make or trade for any tool or toy you need, what need have you of politics and government? Because they are doing a bang up job of taking care of things at the moment.

I personally am going to try cram as much "tech" know how into my girls that i can. I believe the only way out of this quaggmire of poo the world is heading for, is to prepare the future generation as best you can, coz it's them that will have to learn to sink or swim through it; not us!

...or maybe i've just been drinking too much coffee lately?

:rainfro:

[10bulls]

(boring rant deleted)....I personally am going to try cram as much "tech" know how into my girls that i can. I believe....(boring rant deleted)

Oh no! I have become sarah connor from terminator II!

[handlewanker]

Hi all, a very controversial subject.
Who in their right mind would want to smell of cutting oil and have rough calloused hands from gripping cold steel all day? Men of course, or rather I should say the male species.
Males have the muscle power to do the things that males have designed to be worked with by males.
Any females that decide to get in on the act are in my opinion nuts.
Metal work is predominantly a male envionment.
It's dirty, greasy, dangerous, tiresome, backbreaking and thankless.
Except that is when there is a war on and then you've got to do what you wouldn't do normally.
As a choice how many females choose to do engineering as an occupation.
I'd like to see the husband/wife relationship when a woman works a 12 hour shift and stinks of cutting oil, rough nails and works nights.
I bet there isn't one woman out there that would get excited at the thought of a big HSS shell mill ripping into a lump of mild steel with the coolant flowing and the chips twanging off the guards.
Horses for courses, I'd be amused to see a gaggle of females heads down in a newly designed gearbox, discussing the technology that went into it.
It's a mans world, and don't you forget it my son.
And don't give me the old twaddle about the number of things designed by female engineers, I agree they do have a good brain for design and all the disciplines that dictate sound engineering knowledge.
Here is where I define the parting of the ways, You can sweat your little butt off working a pencil over a bit of paper, no matter if you are a male or a female, but to really want to get down to the coal face and hack with the boys, feeling sweaty, smelling sweaty and aching for a cold beer,takes a maleness that females just don't understand.
I wouldn't look down on any female engineering worker who was a genuine "want to do it" type as opposed to "only here for the beer" type.
In forty years of metal working I've not come across ANY women workers in engineering that did it for the love of it, and for that matter I've also rubbed shoulders with quite a few males that just wanted to score big so they could get out of it and do something else.
How many women can't pass a machine showroom without getting all excited?
I don't take my hat off to a woman who decides to pursue a career in metalwork, I just don't understand why.
It must be the blue overalls and steel toe capped boots with the hard hat, safety glasses and heavy riggers gloves to really turn you on.
Ian.

[Geof]

Handlewankers politically incorrect rant, at least in my neck of the woods, reminds of both a newspaper article and meeting I went to on the topic of "Women In Trades". At both of them a woman who had taken up welding as a career and then dropped it gave the explanation that they didn't like the noise and dirt and hard physical work.

[handlewanker]

Hi, I don't blame them for one bit, when you've been handling hot metal with bare hands the skin becomes unbelievably hard and calloused, and apart from that the noise levels are somthing to put you off anyway.
I think those big angle grinders really seperate the men from the boys, but that's par for the coarse.
When I was apprentice in the mid 50's, (last century), we had a local girl who wanted to become a fitter and turner like her father.
The site was in the Namib desert, and in winter it's freezing at 7.00AM and boiling when the mist cleared at 10.00AM.
Apart from the muck and filth we had to work in, there was the blood, sweat and greasy overalls that put her off.
I don't blame her. It's like working with horses, I love them as beautiful creatures, but can't stand being around them.
I think a lot of the trouble is the romantic view people take of various jobs, but get down to actually doing it and the dream becomes a nightmare.
I was born with nuts and bolts for toys, couldn't get enough of 'em.
I made my first soapbox cart when I was 8 years old from a couple of pram wheels and a few planks of wood.
When my parents bought me a Meccano set for Christmas one year I was hooked.
Now, at 68, I've just sold my Bridgeport mill to a mate, and bought another turret mill like it, but the model is an Ajax, with Int 40 spindle taper and quick traverse and feeds to all movements, it's also got a built in coolant pump,
and that's just for fun, no pecuniary advantages to be pursued here.
Why do we do it? I put this question to an old guy I met in '75. He was a retired engine driver on the British railways, drove diesels, and he retired and bought a full sized steam loco, actually a small 0-4-0 shunter, from the scrap yards at Barry in South Wales, UK. He always wanted to do steam but diesels came in and he just went along.
Now he and a few mates drive it around a bit of track on week-ends.
If you have a passion for all things mechanical, then no matter what the barriers you will always gravitate towards the thing that turns you on, even in retirement.
I've yet to see a woman who would like to get messed up just playing with machinery.
Girls grow up, boys never do.
Ian.

[Big Daddy]

I’ve had the pleasure of working with two woman machinist for about two and half years in the same shop. Both easily held they’re own. It was kinda wild because one excelled at the lathes and the other excelled on the mills! And I new another woman that stayed in the trade almost her whole adult life. She’d jump in and get dirty with the best of em. I’d look over at her from time to time and she’d have grease& grim all over her face and her cloths. I remember thinking, “wow that’s a mother of two kids?” Crazy

[Klox]

I used to do business with a Polish guy that only had women in his cnc shop. He told me they are on average much better than men, they are more gentle on their machines (women= multitasking = excellent multi tasking machine operators!), they hear better than men and therefore LISTEN to the boss much better, LOL!
I also met a women that had her own business as a automotive repair shop, wow! she was one hell of a women, she sort of resembled the Iron Lady of British politics.....
MnotLyon, if my dainty little daughter ever wants to pursue a career as a tool & die maker i expect only one thing (OK two things) 1) that she becomes the best artisan sha can be, and 2) that she enjoys her career....

Good on you Charper, women are "better" than men i know, i asked my wife! (sorry i just had to pull your leg a bit!) !!

[Netjams]

For most girls the passion for machines are not the same as for boys but if a girl does have the passion for it she should go for it. I have worked with girl mechanics in the past and they did just fine.

[Netjams]

I forgot to mention one of those girl mechanics is my daughter. Go figure I had 4 boys and one girl and she is the only one that payed attention when I tried to share my experience with mechanical stuff.

[springlakecnc]

Sure, just don't tell them they are wrong... Light years ago i took a cnc class that had a female instructor. The first day in the shop, after the bookwork portion, she put steel about 12" long in a vise and told us she is programming 10 inches per minuit for a face cut. I raised my hand and said, i think you programmed 100 inches per...she said no way...i said if you programmed 10 inches per, wouldn't it take a minuit to go 10"? and you made it across there in about 5 seconds..........if looks could kill, i would be dead!!!!

[ImanCarrot]

I made my first soapbox cart when I was 8 years old from a couple of pram wheels and a few planks of wood.
When my parents bought me a Meccano set for Christmas one year I was hooked

lol edxactly the same as me... kids must be the same the world over I used flattened tin cans and nailed them across the pram wheel axles to hold them onto the plank of wood with a bit of 2"X2" nailed to the side for a brake and rope for steering, used to flip over when you oversteered and a front wheel went under the main plank hehe. Good memories

*back on topic* I went to Wales the other day to discuss some design details with the company director and I was amazed at her level of engineering knowledge (I would have been amazed if it was a bloke too)- she knew everything I did and more. Incidently, there were at least 3 female operators actualy getting down and dirty... perhaps because she was hiring?

When I used to work up in Scotland there were plenty of female operators (mostly elderly who had continued after the war) and they were more than competent. I was an apprentice and learned more off the women than the men.... for some reason they seemed more patient with my inneptitude than the grumpy old men.

[handlewanker]

Hi, I'd like to see some of the girls go through the initation ceremonies that the apppies subjected the new arrivals to.
When I started in 1957, it was with great glee that the other appies informed me that I would be initiated that afternoon.
Everyone, including the journeymen, took great pleasure in informing me of the ordeal ahead, things like head shaving and beer guzzling, or if resistance and refusal to be initiated was met, then pubic hair removal with tin snips and a good lathering with mechanics blue and thick grease mixed with sawdust.
My father just grinned and said I'd get over it.
If you didn't get done on the appointed day and hid out to avoid the "mob", there was the ordeal of jeering fellow workers the next day, who informed you that you wern't "one of them" yet untill you'd been done.
In that year we had a late arrival to the ranks, and he was to be done by himself.
So we coyly invited him to a "party" after work at the men's single quarters.
Only problem was he was a 6ft-2" lad with a body to match a bull, and he wasn't having a bit of it when it became obvious what the party was for.
It took a half a dozen of us to hold him down while his trousers and underwear were removed to do a bit of shearing.
It was indeed lucky that we'd had the forsight to apply alcoholic stimulents, laced with a generous dose of neat Vodka before hand, to slow him down a bit.
I wonder how many girls would see the funny side of that ordeal.
I never met anyone that was traumatized to the extent that actual body injury occured.
Ian.

[Big Daddy]

Well as a matter of fact,,, We had something quite similar we use to call “Smarfing!” It would consist of a tube of liquid dikum (blue). The plain was you put spots of dikum in unsuspected & hidden areas were the victim was sure to touch later and not be aware that it was there! And true to form the victim would in deed handle that item or touch the affected area or what ever it was we covered! Then like average people do, rub their face, their ears their eyes and everywhere else that people rub & touch on themselves! And guess what, “you got a smurf!!” We had a woman that was absolutely covered! Her face and her neck were covered, her cloths were reined. No body was immune! The flip side was dealing with temper tantrums! And the girls actually took it better then the guys!

Ha all something I forgot to mention in case you were wondering, it’s the stuff in a tube (way dykum) It takes forever to dry

[avsfan733]

In my expeiences, I honestly prefer working with women...they leave their stations cleaner they are calmer screw up less parts and most of all LISTEN much more than male machinists I have helped

[silverpeach35]

I am currently working to complete my Machinist's General Certificate that I have put on hold since 2002 due to discouragement. I have worked both as a conventional machinist and a welder and I have been nudged out of a couple of my jobs because of intimidated men. Not all of them have been that way, a lot of them have been professional. Employees are not supposed to discuss wages amongst themselves, but on one welding job I had the truth came out that I was making $2.00 per hour less than a male coworker doing the same job but had a little less experience. Of course I was quite pissed!

Any suggestions from anyone for helping to avoid this kind of nonsense?

[handlewanker]

I've worked in South Africa, UK and Australia, 50 years + in all, and I've never seen a woman on the bench or a machine doing the same job I did, or for that matter actually in the workshop doing manual work.

It must be something in the water they feed the Yanks on to make their woman want to get smelly oily and greased up willingly.

In my book the man is the bread winner and does all the hard yakker, but I could not imagine coming home after a hard grind at the bench and swopping tales of metal cutting with the missus, it'd make me nervous.....she might know mor'n me and that would suck......LOL.

Joking aside, women Engineers yes, manual workers no, leave that crap to the guys, who can't rise above the hammer and chisel work.

Maybe I'm getting old, but looking back at the war years on films, and they had more women doing skilled work than the men then, so I expect if the need is there the women will do what it takes.

I think I missed out on my education not having to compete with the other species, but I wouldn't deny a woman the wage rate based on sex alone, just can't imagine a career in metal work as a woman's dream job.

My father gave me sound advice on the wage issue, if'n they won't pay the rate go down the street, otherwise you'll be working for the man worse than a street woman.

I worked across three continents worldwide to further my career prospects, and if'n yo' ain't prepared to make the move big time, you'll always get the sh!tty end of the stick.

I can honestly say that the first thing I did when applying for a job was to go and see the state of the workplace, and if it resembled a Dickensian "Dark Satanic Mill" I scarpered quick quick, but then being a time served skilled engineering worker I had the balls to do so, and there wasn't a shop owner that denied me my wage expectation.

Make the move, get the quals and move into the office, or they'll use you like an old oil rag.
Ian.

[er-mtl]

I guess it's also a generation thing ... older guys consider womens venturing in "their" field as abnormal and strongly react to it. They like peeing in all four corners of their territory, they like their routine and feel threatened when anything out of their control happens. They often react similarly to foreigners as if they were taking something away from them.

Yes machining can be dirty, but nobody does it because they like dirt (else rear-feeding a garbage truck would be a more appropriate job for them !). What we like is using our brain and skills to turn a piece of raw material into some useful object, and that drive to create and make things is the same for all people, no matter which half of humanity they belong to.

Regarding physical strength, it should be downplayed by the psychological trait that makes mens usually much less cooperative than women. When faced with a task that require physical strength, most guys will try to handle it all by themselves, and only ask for others to help as last resort, after conceding some kind of defeat. Most women are more cooperative and will not think twice before asking for someone else to do it with them. I know very few men who have both more strength and precision than a team of two similarly skilled women.

Another effect of women in "non traditional" workplaces is that it puts guys on alert and creates emulation among us. When women started joining armies, alcoholic behaviour in men around them immediately fell. Making some stupid, sloppy things or botching the job between guy will usually make us laugh and is considered no big deal. Admit it, when women are around, it becomes embarrassing !

A diverse workplace combines the strengths and skills of all peoples involved, and wise management can harness it to create top notch teams.

[dertsap]

. older guys consider womens venturing in "their" field as abnormal and strongly react to it. They like peeing in all four corners of their territory,

They often react similarly to foreigners as if they were taking something away from them.

Regarding physical strength, it should be downplayed by the psychological trait that makes mens usually much less cooperative than women. When faced with a task that require physical strength, most guys will try to handle it all by themselves, and only ask for others to help as last resort, after conceding some kind of defeat.

Another effect of women in "non traditional" workplaces is that it puts guys on alert and creates emulation among us. When women started joining armies, alcoholic behaviour in men around them immediately fell.

A diverse workplace combines the strengths and skills of all peoples involved, and wise management can harness it to create top notch teams.

it's interesting how women such as yourself wants to be accepted into the trades , I would imagine without being stereo-typed or generalized , but you've got such a biased , generalized opinion and attitude toward men .

in the civilized world , labor laws dictate that employers supply the proper equipment for any heavy lifting , brute strength has nothing to do with it anymore . does it mean that we don't take short cuts and do the heavy lifting in a pinch , of course many do

as far as men's behaviors changing when around women , then ya its true in many cases . theres a reason shop talk is categorized . we love to hard time each other to break up the day's monotony , especially if a guys getting his prostate exam or something . a lot of crap can come out of our mouths that may be offensive to many people , male or female . so for the most part many will tighten up their lip out of respect for others , also many of us have heard the words sexual harassment or racism while on the job , so many are gun shy , and it has nothing to do with being accepting or not , its a matter of watch what you say till you know the coast is clear

"A diverse workplace combines the strengths and skills of all peoples involved"
I agree with that , Ive worked with a lot of people over the years and only a handful I would consider as being exceptional at their job (machining) . one of them was a woman who could put out tolerances on a couple of old worn out manuals that no one else could do on the same machines . the thing is she came in did her job and went home like the rest of us . nobody questioned her ability nor her attitude in the work place , nobody needed to !

if someone can do the job then do it ,I don't think that the majority cares who does it , but if a persons got a chip on their shoulder then that's their problem that spreads thru a company like a cancer , it never gets solved , creates bitterness and spite and eventually that person loses

personally I'm fed up with peoples entitlements, b#$%ing a whining and finger pointing about every single little thing , just do it !



.

[er-mtl]

Now it's getting funny ...

it's interesting how women such as yourself wants to be accepted into the trades

I'm a woman ?

Looks like the "Older guy who like peeing in all four corners of his territory" hit close to home with you. To paraphrase your tagline, it seems like you got stuck in the boundaries of your own mind (or the wrong century), but the fun thing with angry people without humor is they make the others laugh ...

Next time, if you don't want to expose your prejudice and make a fool of yourself, try to think before you blindly reply to posts without even taking the time to read them completely with a long mindless whiny rant for a change ... just do it !