[Rotax91]

Hey guys,

I've had my CNC table for a few years now. I currently run a Bosch 1617EVS router. I have new neighbors on the other side of me, 70+ years old. Although the walls are actually quite good, I'd like to make the setup as quiet as possible. In talking to John @ Keling, he recommended the water cooled 2.2kw setup. However, I watched some youtube videos and I must say that it seems like the spindles appear to be just as loud as a router when at high rpm. I don't have 220v currently in my garage so if and when I do something, I want this to be worth it and not all for nothing.

Any ideas? I'm willing to spend($600+ or so) on a spindle if I can be guaranteed that it's nice and quiet.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[alan_3301]

They have similar pitch whine as the router, but definitely much less volume.

As far as your neighbors, old people lose much of their high frequency hearing, so as long as you are not playing music with loud bass or banging drums, they probably won't have any clue.

[Rotax91]

Ha.. If that's the case I wonder if upgrading to a spindle over my Bosch router would almost be not even be worth it. I'm in a duplex so I just wanted to be considerate and do everything possible to dampen the sound. I thought about the SuperPID which would allow me to run at lower rpm since it gives the ability to keep the router at consistent rpm even when under a load.

[ger21]

Most spindle noise is from the cooling fan.

A water cooled spindle at 24,000 rpm should be quieter than your Bosch at 15,000.

You may be able to get a 1.5Kw spindle with a 110V VFD, but you'll be limited to 1/4" bits.

Also, keep i mind that actual cutting noise is much louder than the spindle noise, if your taking deep and fast cuts.

[Rotax91]

Hi Ger,

Thanks for chiming in. Was hoping you would. I just spoke to the electrician and he said it wouldn't be a problem to run 220 to the garage from my panel. Even though it's full, they have a way of double breakering if needed. So 220v wouldn't be a problem. Glad you brought up the 1.5kw spindle. Really looking for someone to say, yes you'd be fine with 1.5kw. The Bosch is rated at 2 1/4hp but I wonder if it's really putting out that much hp at full power. I would love to just go with the 1.5 if I knew it was nearly as powerful as my Bosch. I only have one 1/2" bit and that's end mill for doing larger pocketing jobs. I could probably live without it.

I just came in from doing some dB testing. Just running, not cutting
Bosch setting: 1- 86dB, 2- 89dB, 3-94dB, 4-98dB, 5-103dB, 6-107dB

As you can see it's pretty high. I generally run between 5&6 so it's pretty loud.

UgraCNC does some testing of their spindles. 1.5kv is 67dB max and the 2.2kw is 75dB max. That's the water cooled ones.. So maybe their spindles would be a little better over the chinese spindles as far as noise goes.

Thanks.

[ger21]

UGRA spindles ARE chinese spindles.
They just import them and test them, so the quality control is higher.

I've never used one, but from what I've read, the 1.5Kw should be at least as powerful as the Bosch, probably more powerful.
1.5Kw is about 2HP, and handheld routers are typically much less than their rated HP.

I recently purchased two 2.2Kw air cooled spindles, but it'll probably be a year before I hook them up.

[Rotax91]

HI Ger,

What was I thinking. Of course. Everything is made in CHINA. lol There are 110v and 220v 1.5kw setups. I'm panning thru ebay right now. So many different ones. If you look just above they collet, you can see so many different designs of the 1.5kw. Are there any advantages of a 110v 1.5 vs 220v 1.5kw setup? Running a 110v vfd would certainly be huge for me not needing an electrician to do anything.

Thanks.

[ger21]

If you look just above they collet, you can see so many different designs of the 1.5kw.

Yes, and don't be surprised if what you get is different from the picture.
At least with UGRA, you know what your getting, but you pay a premium for it.

The spindles are all 220V, but the VFD runs on either 110V or 220V. A 110V VFD will require more current than the 220V, but I don't know how much.

[Rotax91]

Surfing thru countless youtubes. If only I could figure out what spindle this guy is running. That thing is uber quiet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1xu8xibI3w

[mbronkalla]

I just bought one of the water cooled 2.2KW units from automation technologies. I am running it with Teco 7300CV 3KW drive from factorymation. I have Teco units on my mill and lathe and they work well so I wanted to stay with the same family.
So far I have spun it up and programmed the drive settings. MUCH quieter than a router. I still have to finish the water cooling loop and few other things before I start cutting.
However from past experience with routers, the cutting noise, depending on the cutter, feed speed, etc can easily swamp the free running motor and bit (by a LOT). So we will see what the noise level will be like in the end. I hope to do some test cuts next weekend but another project for my wife may interfere (cnc router is taking longer than I had estimated).

[ger21]

All 2.2Kw water cooled spindles should sound about the same. The only thing that would make noise is the spinning bearings, since there's no fan or brushes.
And there could be 50 different manufacturers making these, so it's almost impossible to find out exactly where it cam from.

[Zamfir]

I am in the same boat. I have been running the Bosch for so long and at such high speeds I have gone through the big bearings 2 times..I finally upgraded to ceramic in the big bearing and new brushes. Even after breaking in the brushes this sucker is freggin loud. Since my cnc is made of wood, I am scared of water cooled. It is time for me to upgrade to DC brushless..but I am thinking air because if I spring a leak, I am screwed! Or, am I being too scared of the water aspect? I cut balsa and G10 most of the time so my cutting noise is not that loud. It is my router! Man she flys now though..I am getting up to 28K with my super PID..I just need to finally bite the bullet and upgrade to something meant to run at high speeds for a long time. I know I would be just fine with 1.5KW. The Bosch never gets hot. Light loads..But I do sometimes need to hog out some hard wood or Lexan..

[wizard]

The water cooled spindles are quiet relative to a router but that is only half your problem. The cutting noise is or can be significant and the servos/stepper can add a bit of noise.

I'd seriously consider an enclosure for the machine. Not only will an enclosure significantly cut noise it will also help manage dust.

[Rotax91]

^ took your advice and did some searching. I've engaged with 8020 to see about them custom building an enclosure for me like guy did in this thread. Beautiful! I would only need the top portion for mine. I would still do the water cooled spindle also. I think the cabinet & spindle upgrade would really help with the noise. I will keep this thread alive with progress.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/taig-m...47434-cnc.html

[Zamfir]

The water cooled spindles are quiet relative to a router but that is only half your problem. The cutting noise is or can be significant and the servos/stepper can add a bit of noise.

I'd seriously consider an enclosure for the machine. Not only will an enclosure significantly cut noise it will also help manage dust.

Not in my case. The motor is for sure the loudest. I cut balsa 90% of the time and the cutting noise on that is nothing. I do want to upgrade and build an enclosure or drapes of some sort as well. The enclosure would have to be drapes of some sort..it would almost bee a small room to build a hard enclosure over the machine. So now the question is how often do the water cooled spindles spring a leak? That would really suck on my MDF machine. But It makes sense for quiet and longevity of the spindle. Eventually I will build an all aluminium CNC that this would transfer over to and I will get a lower speed higher torq spindle for hogging out some aluminium.

So is water cooled prone to leaks or is it pretty rock solid? Or am I overthinking this and air cooled is the best choice?

Thanks!

[Azalin]

I used both Bosch router and 2.2kw water cooled. There are HUGE difference in noise between them. I still use the 2.2kw and I just love it.

Leak? Umm, I don't think.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[JerryBurks]

I have posted the fact a few times here that I am running a 2.2kW Chinese "water-cooled" spindle for several years now with only external air cooling using my 1 hp HF dust collector. I was not so much concerned about leaks but wanted to avoid the hassle with plumbing, radiators or reservoirs and pumps (that may fail or clog). The high volume air stream through a shroud around the spindle has more cooling effect than the usual water trickle, anyway. I have a thermometer strip on the spindle and it never gets warmer than about 10 degC (18 degF) higher than room temperature. It takes about 5-10 minutes for the spindle to warm up to that temperature, depending on the load. This dust extractor configuration makes for an easier dust boot setup, basically just an extension of the air shroud and for most uses you will need something to avoid dust going everywhere.

I agree with other posters that the spindle noise (basically just a whirr) will be drowned out by the cutting noise for any bit bigger than 1/8" or all hard materials. I also like the fact that the spindle is safer. The starting torque is minimal and it starts up gradually within 5-10 seconds. A router goes off with maximum torque within fractions of a second. Mistakes or software problems can have a much worse result.

[Rotax91]

Just an update... The ball is really rolling fast on this. I found a post on here of a guy that had his cabinet made up for him using 8020 alum. I contacted 8020 directly and they referred me to a distributor in my area. Not all that far from me. I gave him rough dimensions and will get pricing soon. This is exactly what I want in the picture but I want doors on the 2 sides. I'm just looking at have a top made that you see in red. It will go over my existing table.

I plan on doing this enclosure and also a water cooled spindle.

[wizard]

Just an update... The ball is really rolling fast on this. I found a post on here of a guy that had his cabinet made up for him using 8020 alum. I contacted 8020 directly and they referred me to a distributor in my area. Not all that far from me. I gave him rough dimensions and will get pricing soon. This is exactly what I want in the picture but I want doors on the 2 sides. I'm just looking at have a top made that you see in red. It will go over my existing table.

I plan on doing this enclosure and also a water cooled spindle.

That is a nice looking house!

Some things to watch out for:

1. Lexan isn't the best of materials to deaden sound. Obviously you need it wherever you want to see into the enclosure.
2. Make sure addition gussets are used on all doors. 8020 framing will fall apart on heavily used doors without the additional support at the joints. I'm speaking form experience here with automation equipment. The interesting thing here is that their "light duty" quick frame extrusion make good doors if the Lexan is bolted to a single flange extrusion. The Lexan effectively reinforces the door frame.
3. Dont be shocked if the quote comes back on the stiff side! You may want to buy the extrusions and DIY the solution. The cost for a sheet of Lexan is shockingly high so that is part of the problem, then you have to pay for the labour.
4. If you totally enclose the machine remember to provide a venting solution. The vacuum otherwise has to pull air through every crack and gap it can find.

[victorofga]

ugra cnc says it has er16
i think that has 3/8 collet max versus er11 1/4

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/1510412...lpid=82&chn=ps

another one, it is cheaper, but has er11 collet, and it comes with inverter.. ugracnc sells without inverter.. you need ot buy separated..

the huangyang inverters has post on cnczone to hook them on mach3 and control from programs

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-80mm-1-5...3D291115535195

also look for what ugra sells, on the front looks the bearings are doubled..


one thing i sure, these dont have noise.. i using mine since 3 years ago, and certainly never changed brushes, and still runs quiet..

water way need to blow torugh 2-3 weeks or more frequent with pressred air, so it doesnt plug up..

a regular aquarium pump for 20 dollar works.. and a 2 dollar bucket from lowes, with lid..


even whole setup
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-1-5KW-Sp...3D291115535195