[RA-Bowtie]

G'day all,

I've started using the the Tormach jog shuttle for the first time and the thing that struck me as odd is;

On the X axis . . . rotate the wheel to the right and the bed goes left.

It does pretty much the same on the other axis.

Now I may not be the smartest tool in the shed, but that doesn't very intuitive to me.

Can it be configured or do I have to get used to it.

Michael

[CadRhino]

I would like to know too. This has caused me a haimer tip or two

G'day all,

I've started using the the Tormach jog shuttle for the first time and the thing that struck me as odd is;

On the X axis . . . rotate the wheel to the right and the bed goes left.

It does pretty much the same on the other axis.

Now I may not be the smartest tool in the shed, but that doesn't very intuitive to me.

Can it be configured or do I have to get used to it.

Michael

[Stigoe]

It's probably because that's the direction the tool moves relative to the work piece.

[popspipes]

I have been plagued by that for three years, I did break several endmills and probes because of it.
Its hard for me to imagine the tool is moving when it isnt ha! I have cranked the table around on a Bridgeport for 50 years and the habit is hard to break for me.

I would like to see an option to reverse it also, I think some of the large machines have that option.
The Z axis is correct though.

Also selecting an axis it should beep, I have turned the audio on and added speakers but not a peep as far as the jog shuttle is concerned.

[CadRhino]

I have heard of folks using game boy pendants with success. I wonder if those are more adjustable

It's probably because that's the direction the tool moves relative to the work piece.

[popspipes]

I have heard of folks using game boy pendants with success. I wonder if those are more adjustable

I think some of them are, I just havent tried one yet, I do have a number pad that works if its turned upside down, but it has its drawbacks too. In my opinion nothing works as good as the shuttle, it just needs to beep and be able to reverse XY if its comfortable to the operator that owns it.
I think a young guy would pick up on this right away, I just havent been able to.

I do have a vista pendant and it has the option to reverse the axis travels, I just didnt like it as well as the jog shuttle, as both hands are needed to use it.

A new shuttle thats coolant and chip proof, that beeps when the axes are changed, and be able to reverse axes directions would be worth a lot to me.

[popspipes]

I would like to know too. This has caused me a haimer tip or two

That is precisely why I use cheapo indicators to indicate centers with! Murphys law gets to me on a regular basis ha!

[mountaindew]

That is precisely why I use cheapo indicators to indicate centers with! Murphys law gets to me on a regular basis ha!

My shuttle beeps when I press the axis buttons! Only hear it if shop is quiet

I watch probe indicator dial for clockwise = moving toward part and counter clockwise = moving away from part. Doesn't matter what axis or direction is selected its the same. This and not talking on phone has helped me go over a year with only one probe tip break.

If I had a shuttle function wish list it would be zero current axis button save hand movement to keyboard

[popspipes]

My shuttle beeps when I press the axis buttons! Only hear it if shop is quiet

I watch probe indicator dial for clockwise = moving toward part and counter clockwise = moving away from part. Doesn't matter what axis or direction is selected its the same. This and not talking on phone has helped me go over a year with only one probe tip break.

If I had a shuttle function wish list it would be zero current axis button save hand movement to keyboard

The onboard audio is enabled in bios, I have tried the front and back ports and powered speakers, still no beeps?? Do I need a separate audio board or something?

[popspipes]

A call to Tormach, The Tech said it has never been something in pathpilot or Mach for the shuttle to beep.
I may call the computer store and see if they know how to turn it on.

[CNC-Dude]

First thing I did when I noticed the pendant was "backwards" was to create a mental note on how it is the tool that which is moving. It had been a while since I'd owned a mill so that helped.

If you want the shuttle to be customizable, you can download the Shuttle Pro pendant driver from Artsoft's website. You will need to rename Tormach's so that it is not loaded. I think on that driver you can reverse motion. Hopefully I am not getting confused with the VistaCNC pendant...

I do recall you can assign functions to the buttons if you enable the Shuttle Pro Pendant drivers, although I didn't find one which I liked so eventually I just deleted the driver and went back to Tormach's default.

I also have the "beep" sound when I press a button. But be careful! Just because you heard the sound does not mean the axis was accepted! That is how I have lost plenty of edge finders and tooling... Darned unbeepery beep!

[Hirudin]

What?! It beeps but doesn't switch axis? That's absurd!

Personally, I think knobs turned clockwise should be the "+" direction (like volume knobs) so counterclockwise should be "-". That being the case, I try to think of the table moving in the "+" and "-" directions instead of left and right. I also make an effort to avoid turning the dial willy-nilly. That frequently means I have to pause for a few seconds to work out which direction is which in my head. I usually try to visualize a graph and visualize the tool as a point on that graph. I think to myself "OK, if I want the point to move over there, how would the X and Y coordinates of that point change; would they increase or decrease?".

I feel like it's becoming more intuitive, but I don't have it "down pat" yet. I wish I used this method from the beginning! I had the jogging arrows flipped on my TAIG machine when I was just starting this hobby. I think using it the "wrong" way first, and getting fixated on "left and right" instead of "plus and minus", has made learning the correct way more difficult.

[bevinp]

The principle is based upon the axis movement. That is, the X DRO or coord increases when the.Shuttle is turned clockwise.
This orientation is consistent with the Gcode orientation and all documentation, accessories and ancillary design. It makes good sense to learn it that way.

So say to yourself before turning the shuttle, "in what direction do I want to "move". positive or negative?" then turn clockwise or anticlockwise. Forget about which is moving, tool or table. Or remember the photos in the Tormach manual showing the positive and negative directions Or think about east west north south.

If you have manual mill operation ingrained in your thoughts and habits then I can understand your desire for an option to reverse the direction, but don't claim the standard CNC orientation is wrong.

[RA-Bowtie]

Yep, already baptised the Haimer

Michael

[RA-Bowtie]

I have been plagued by that for three years, I did break several endmills and probes because of it.
Its hard for me to imagine the tool is moving when it isnt ha! I have cranked the table around on a Bridgeport for 50 years and the habit is hard to break for me.

I would like to see an option to reverse it also, I think some of the large machines have that option.
The Z axis is correct though.

Also selecting an axis it should beep, I have turned the audio on and added speakers but not a peep as far as the jog shuttle is concerned.

The silly part is that the Page Up/Page Down (on the keyboard) work correctly, but the jog wheel on the axis works backwards!

And yes, I've done a lot of manual machining as a hobby ... but this is gonna take some getting used to.

Michael

[RA-Bowtie]

The principle is based upon the axis movement. That is, the X DRO or coord increases when the.Shuttle is turned clockwise.
This orientation is consistent with the Gcode orientation and all documentation, accessories and ancillary design. It makes good sense to learn it that way.

So say to yourself before turning the shuttle, "in what direction do I want to "move". positive or negative?" then turn clockwise or anticlockwise. Forget about which is moving, tool or table. Or remember the photos in the Tormach manual showing the positive and negative directions Or think about east west north south.

If you have manual mill operation ingrained in your thoughts and habits then I can understand your desire for an option to reverse the direction, but don't claim the standard CNC orientation is wrong.

I didn't claim that it was wrong, or that wasn't my intention.

As a complete novice to CNC, I guess I was using (for me) a logical thought process.

Besides, I my little deluded world, I sounds perfectly reasonable ;-)

I guess that's one of the disadvantages of having a lot of enthusiasm and no talent :-)

Michael

[CNC-Dude]

So say to yourself before turning the shuttle, "in what direction do I want to "move". positive or negative?" then turn clockwise or anticlockwise. Forget about which is moving, tool or table. Or remember the photos in the Tormach manual showing the positive and negative directions Or think about east west north south.

Bevinp, I still think we need to think of the tool as the element moving. After all, if we say "I want to move positive" we need a frame of reference. What is moving positive? Positive with respect to what? Basically our coordinate system defines the (0,0,0) position and that is the "respect to what". But we still need to know what it is that is moving with respect to that point.

To me this wasn't too hard to grasp because although I got rid of my manual equipment on 2005 (SHAME ON ME!!! and still regretting it), I got a laser engraver on 2007 and the coordinate system got ingrained pretty well. I always had to think on where the laser was with respect to my table. When I got the CNC mill, I continued doing the same thing. I am always thinking the part is my "laser table", the tool is the "laser beam" and the shuttle or keyboard is my handle to move the tool positive or negative with respect to the table.

BTW, continuing on your East West North South, another one is to remember our 11th grade Geometry Class and the Cartesian plane. When I die (hopefully in 60 years) and they do an autopsy, they'll find a bunch of these floating around in my brain, heh heh heh.

[J S Machine]

A teacher I had in machine tool education over a decade ago always used to tell us "ride the tool". It has worked well for me. I have no problem with the Jog shuttle and it seems pretty normal to what I am used to.

[bevinp]

I didn't claim that it was wrong, or that wasn't my intention.

As a complete novice to CNC, I guess I was using (for me) a logical thought process.

Besides, I my little deluded world, I sounds perfectly reasonable ;-)

I guess that's one of the disadvantages of having a lot of enthusiasm and no talent :-)

Michael

Sorry Michael,
I wasn't directing my reply to you, just to all. And rereading what I wrote, it does come across a little harsh. That wasn't my intention. Sorry
And it's good you were using a logical approach.

CNC-Dude,
Yes, thinking of the tool as the moving element is sensible but it doesn't automatically map to positive or negative direction when using the shuttle. It is practice, just as the CNC machining requires a formal way of approaching a task. Which is different to the suck-it-and-see approach to manual milling. (Hope that observation doesn't ruffle any feathers... too much)
Bevin

[RA-Bowtie]

Sorry Michael,
I wasn't directing my reply to you, just to all. And rereading what I wrote, it does come across a little harsh. That wasn't my intention. Sorry
And it's good you were using a logical approach.

CNC-Dude,
Yes, thinking of the tool as the moving element is sensible but it doesn't automatically map to positive or negative direction when using the shuttle. It is practice, just as the CNC machining requires a formal way of approaching a task. Which is different to the suck-it-and-see approach to manual milling. (Hope that observation doesn't ruffle any feathers... too much)
Bevin

Not at all, mate.

Just a bit of light hearted banter.

Michael